OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested - Page 10

CNCRaymond · #91 December 15th, 2003, 03:36 AM

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Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
And for the record, Bush did lie. It is called propaganda, part of waging war. Every war fought throughout history has been filled with propaganda. Propaganda is by its very nature at best a half-truth. You can not fault someone for employing propaganda. You can certainly fault them for their real reasons for going to war, but not just the fact that they lied. Lying is what being a leader is about.

Uh, I don't know about this Fyron. Personally I am not convinced that Bush lied about Iraq's WMD's. It very possible, if not likely, at this point Bush was very wrong about the threat of Iraqi WMD's. But being wrong and lying are two very different things.

If someone were to prove that Bush knew that Iraq had no legitimate WMD threat and that the war was only intended to line the pockets of Haliburton then I would say that goes way beyond propaganda. Propaganda is lying to gain tactical advantage over the enemy. This would be lying to your own people to cover up presidential malfeseance of a tremendous scale.

Geoschmo

Well spoken Geoschmo. Although Fyron does make a good point and one that can pass as he has described it. Bush may have been spreading propoganda knowing that it might not be accurate. That is something that he will have to answer for in time I think.

About this "Haliburton" can you provide more info. I only briefly heard about this the other day and have not been able to do a follow up. Thanks.

Fyron · #92 December 15th, 2003, 03:49 AM

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Originally posted by rextorres:
I suppose calling someone a "flag waver" could be considered an insult in some circles, but other than that I do not read any hostility in my tone in that thread either.

Here are a few of your more hostile passages:

"Some people feel uncomfortable with this "revisionist" history because it doesn't show the US in the best light and in today's Jingoistic climate if your not 100% pro US your unpatriotic . . . I guess if it lets them sleep better at night good for them."

"Atrocities - dropping the a-bomb wasn't meant to save civilian lives - I guess it's hard for flag wavers to admit that the U.S. was already killing hundred of thousands of civilian lives - not admitting THIS is revisionist. "

"That the bomb ended the war is a myth that we Americans like to tell ourselves. The US was already killing 100,000s of civilians every night from fire bombings in the capital cities so please don't give me any altruistic crap about saving innocent civilian lives."

All of these have an explicity provokative tone to them. Hence, hostility. There is no need for the tone of these. You could have avoided a lot of problems by wording them better.

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I did disagree with you in that thread as well though . . . so maybe that's why you are picking up hostility.

Disagreement does not equate hostility. The hardest mistakes to recognize are your own.

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BTW: Can I quote what you've posted here next time you write an opinion.

If I am ever as hostile as you are at times, feel free to.

CNCRaymond · #93 December 15th, 2003, 03:49 AM

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Originally posted by Roanon:

quote:
Originally posted by CNCRaymond:
the best thing to do here is for you all to apologize for treating me with disrespect

No comment.

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If Roanon was offended by my comments, he should have handled it more professionally than to resort to the childish insulting behavior that he chose to conduct himself in. Justifying his behavior by saying I insulted him is at best warped logic.

Do I understand this correctly? Calling me childish is NOT an insult, because YOU are doing it?
If I was offended by your comments (yes I was) then I should have handled it more professionally than by saying you insulted me, which is at best warped logic?
I give up, I really cannot understand this logic, my fault probably.

No you do not understand me correctly. I did not call you childish, I called your behavior childish and insulting. But you can take it any way you want. And thank you for your apology if that is indeed what you have done here; "I give up, I really cannot understand this logic, my fault probably." If not, oh well, life goes on.

However, in the intrest of putting this behind us and moving forward with other topics, I, for having inadvertantly offending you with my words, offer my apologies.

I do not believe you to be a bad person, and if I have inadvertantly implied that you are, well that was not my intent.

Besides, what would I have gained by dilibrately insulting a member of this forum? Naw, I feel that you are more emotionally connected to the topic than I, therefore far more invested in what is said.

If you have no futher objects, shall we consider this the end?

President_Elect_Shang · #94 December 15th, 2003, 03:59 AM

Nicely put CNC, Roanon?

rextorres · #95 December 15th, 2003, 04:35 AM

Thanks Fyron - If saying something is "Altruistic Crap" and lamenting that one can't voice his opinions because of the climate in America today is "hostile" then you have a very thin skin. I can point to a number of posting in this thread alone that are way more provocative than that.

Anyways, I thought you wrote that, "I do not have an opinion one way or another on many of these particular issues".

[ December 15, 2003, 02:39: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Fyron · #96 December 15th, 2003, 04:38 AM

If you don't see anything wrong with the way you have been posting, there is little I can do to help you.

CNCRaymond · #97 December 15th, 2003, 04:51 AM

I don't know what the record is for Posts in a single topic in one day is, but I feel this one has got to be in the contention. 96 Posts in less than 12 hours. Not bad. And we owe this all to the Capture of Saddam.

Again, congrats to the US military, There allies, and the Iraqi People.

geoschmo · #98 December 15th, 2003, 05:00 AM

Fyron and Rex I think both of you have made your good points and both of you have made statements that are over the line. Let's try to get the conversation off of who is hostile and who is not and get back to discussing the issues, or just drop it all together.

Try to find a way to disagree with the substance of each other's comments without critisizing the manner in which they are made.

Geoschmo

dogscoff · #99 December 15th, 2003, 09:46 AM

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Personally I am not convinced that Bush lied about Iraq's WMD's.

Blair definitely did. Anyone remember that plagiarised college thesis that had "Iraqi" search/replaced for "terrorist" and was then presented by the government as an "intelligence report"?

As for the Halliburton thing...There are a zillion sites out there tracking the tentacles of Bush's money, but on a slightly different note here's a link I like to post from time to time: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/20...g_archive.html
Read the posting of August 28th for an interesting angle on the distribution of these rebuilding contracts. Spend a while reading some of the more recent Posts as well. As far as I'm concerned these Iraqi blogs are the only place for ppl like us to know what's actually going on inside the country.

geoschmo · #**100** December 15th, 2003, 01:17 PM

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Originally posted by dogscoff:
As for the Halliburton thing...There are a zillion sites out there tracking the tentacles of Bush's money,

Don't misunderstand me. I know full well that after the fact Haliburton is making a killing off of the contracts for Iraqi construction. This is a bit disturbing to me as well, however, it's not unheard of for people in powerful postions to have powerful friends. But the fact that Haliburton is benefitting from the war does not by itself prove that the war was started to benefit Haliburton. That's the accusation being made by many in opposition to the war. But I have seen nothing that comes cloes to proving it.