OT- Rights in the USA and Canada and the world - Page 2

Rollo · #11 February 16th, 2004, 08:26 PM

Communism doesn't have to be forced. That's my point.

Slynky · #12 February 16th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Slynky I do not think you opened a can of worms.

I value your opinion.

And please no country bashing. I wish to keep this thread to its original intent and that is the issue of Rights and Freedoms.

Thanks, Tesco!

Let me say right off...this is one of my favortie forums. Although we don't live down the street from each other, in this world of the Internet, it's the next best things. It is rare, if ever, that I will lash out at someone or say that something they wrote is stupid. I try to treat this "distance" that the Internet gives us as if the guy were in the room with me.

Having said that...I don't think I was picking on a country. If I was desparaging a country, it was the US. As a citizen, and as one who fought in a war and one who served to help protect the freedom we have in the US, I feel I have the right to say things about the US that aren't sweet.

As a person who has visited over 25 countries, one who enjoys the exchange and views of people of different countries, I think I am the Last person to find fault with another country because all of them have their good points and bad points...same as the US.

And, I hope, I spoke to the rights and freedoms of a country as you initially started...the US...and what they were doing. Because, when you reduce the average human to their basic desires, I think it comes down to this: All want the opportunity to grow up safely, get married, have a family, and give them the best life they can have. No matter where they live!

So, to summarize, I don't think I was doing any "country bashing". If I misunderstood the initial post, please correct me.

Hehe, and I said, YOU opened the can of worms...not me...LOL

Roanon · #13 February 16th, 2004, 08:31 PM

police state ~ fascism ~ communism.

No big difference living under Hitler or Stalin.

narf poit chez BOOM · #14 February 16th, 2004, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollo:
Communism doesn't have to be forced. That's my point.

unforced communism is socialism. that's my point.

Slynky · #15 February 16th, 2004, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollo:
Communism doesn't have to be forced. That's my point.

And that is true. In the smallest of environments, a commune (the source of the word, "communism") is usually a happily agreed-upon style of living. "We" tried it in the US during the Hippie days and it rarely (in actuality) ever worked. Why? Because human nature, IMHO, tends toward greed. To get MORE than they are entitled to...or to do less than they should to support the community.

Roanon · #16 February 16th, 2004, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollo:
Communism doesn't have to be forced. That's my point.

Without force, you will not be able to keep the majority of people unhappy.

Slynky · #17 February 16th, 2004, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roanon:

quote:
Originally posted by Rollo:
Communism doesn't have to be forced. That's my point.

Without force, you will not be able to keep the majority of people unhappy.

I have to disagree. Now...please understand...I know your country is Germany. And know this: If I had to live in another country besides the US, it would be a tough choice between Germany and Australia.

But, I disagree with the "force" comment. (unless "force" is a different definition)

To have a "successful" country, you need only keep the population happy enough to not revolt. That doesn't take force. It takes giving them things. If they have enough things to keep them happy, they will not revolt. Force, on the other hand, is only playing for time...sooner or later, there will be a revolt.

Roanon · #18 February 16th, 2004, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
it rarely (in actuality) ever worked. Why? Because human nature, IMHO, tends toward greed. To get MORE than they are entitled to...or to do less than they should to support the community.

Exactly. But greed is the main driving force of mankind. And this is not generally bad. Take away the greed, and humanity would still live in caves using stone tools (if at all).
Agreed, there should be regulations and limits, but the only way to make everyone communistically equal is to downgrade everything to the lowest possible level - and let it stay there. Communism = nice theorey, just sucks in reality.

Slynky · #19 February 16th, 2004, 08:48 PM

Roanon said, "Communism = nice theorey, just sucks in reality."

I think we agree! Sometimes, it sucks to admit humanity has built-in faults.

BTW, your English is wonderful! As good as Alneyan's.

Roanon · #20 February 16th, 2004, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
To have a "successful" country, you need only keep the population happy enough to not revolt. That doesn't take force. It takes giving them things. If they have enough things to keep them happy, they will not revolt.

Yep. This was something already known to the Romans - the emperors knew that the people needed nothing else than "panem et circenses" - bread and games.
Problem with communism, you cannot give under such a system, only deny. Because it is easy to deny equally, but giving has to start somewhere, to come from somewhere i.e. something has to be developed somewhere. This would mean unequality, or "greedy taking more than they are entitled to"

somewhere. And this would be in contrast to basic communistic principles.