Question on refusing Treaties.

[Talenn]

In an effort to make the AI more aggressive, I am going through the 'AI_Anger' file. In there, I see an entry for the AI's anger to increase (by a fairly significant amount) if a treaty is refused.

My question is: What happens if the treaty request is just ignored instead of refused? There doesnt seem to be any penalty for that and that defeats the purpose of that particular 'Anger Mod' IMO. Would it be possible (or does it do it now and I just dont notice) for the AI to treat any ignored treaty request as refused?

Thanx,
Talenn

[Psitticine]

Am I misremembering or aren't ignored treaties "withdrawn" (disappear from the diplomatic screen) after a while? Maybe that counts as a refusal.

[Jubala]

I would say the AI should get more upset if a treaty is ignored then if it's rejected. I would be anyway. And it shouldn't be too upset if it is rejected. After all it's no big deal really.

[Talenn]

I did some experimenting and there is definately a 'diplomatic penalty' associated with responding with a refusal. There does NOT appear to be any penalty for just not responding at all.

I think this amounts to a pretty major flaw in the diplomacy model and probably accounts for alot of the reason why the AI is so darned peaceful. I think that is really the only thing I find severely lacking in this game...CONFLICT! Very few demands for gifts...very few ultimatums. Very little of anything except treaty requests actually.

Maybe my play style is completely different than most, but I feel like the AI is always wanting treaties. I miss the surprise of a quick AI war/attack as in MOO/MOO2. Even in SE3 you could tailor the AI players so as to have 'Conquerors' or 'Xenophobes' or 'Marauders' etc. This made for conflict and unpredicability in the game and greatly added to the game experience.

Nearly every game I've played of SE4 so far (Max AI players, Hardest Level, Low Bonus) has resulted in HUGE stretches of peace punctuated by my extermination of one race at a time.

Even when the race is listed as 'berserk' or whatnot, its still the same old thing...treaty request after treaty request.

I've tried to edit some of the AI files to make them more aggressive but have had little success as long as the player plays it cool.

Anyone else have any success or experience AI player warlike tendancies?

Talenn

[alchemy]

quote:

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Anyone else have any success or experience AI player warlike tendancies?

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This may be well known to the more experienced, players, but ...

I was trying to play a peaceful game, with a "tiered" approach to allies (one partnership, one military alliance, etc.). I was refusing treaty "upgrades".

Then, all of a sudden, after a long stretch of peace, where relations were all very warm and brotherly, within two turns all of them declared war on me. I believe that this may have been precipitated when my score became greater than 500, does this sound correct?

So, no warlike tendencies, just a strong, unified reaction to the perceived strength of my empire. FWIW, my counter-intel did stop an attempt earlier by one empire that I had no treaty with.

[Talenn]

Mithras:

Yes, that is the 'Mega Evil AI' kicking in. It is set for the 500 mark in your score. All AI players will hate you, but I've found that there is usually not a lot that they can do at that point. Its just mop up anyways in my games.

What I am looking for is instances earlier in the game where the AI is the aggressor for seemingly little or no reason...ie a THREAT.

Thanx though, at least we know at SOME point, the AI will fight back.

Talenn

[Ebonyknight]

FWIW, the AI always gets mad at me after a year or two. But then again...I don't really know why. I do refuse a treaty now and again (which I am sure annoys them) and never ignore them. Maybe that is why I have such a hard time.

Most of the time I play (I have yet to complete a game) the AI eventually declare war after the first year or two of contact. What am I doing that ya'll aren't? I always seem to piss off the computer and you guys always are upset at the peace. Ironic.

All I do is build my fleet, and increase the population, but I have been recently playing with small galaxy, medium to low players and low player difficulty. Pretty soon the AI goes ballistic and the game drags on in stalemate. I end up bottled inside my own systems too busy fending off attacks to expand or attack them.

Oh, well...the grass is greener...

[Shepherd]

If you are looking for a game where the AI is a threat, check the 'Team Mode' box in the game setup. That makes all computer players irrevocably hate all human players...and you'll have a galaxy at constant war.

[Taqwus]

Ebonyknight -- try playing in a Large universe instead. When an AI feels it has sufficient lebensraum it may be less belligerent; perhaps the galaxy is so small that they feel they have to wipe you out in order to have room in which to grow.

I normally play Large, and until I hit 'MegaEvilEmpire' status, most AIs haven't been *that* quick to anger without provocation.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[Ebonyknight]

Maybe you should try it out and see if makes the AI as aggressive as you want it.

I know that even with a three good planet head start, I can only hold them off. By the time I start taking systems, it's too frustrating and I spend so much time producing ships for defense, that my R+D falls behind. With such a limited amount of planets, you won't have to worry about out researching the AI, I'll bet you will have a challenge just keeping up.

It is a VERY similar experience to the island hopping campaign the US Marines did in WWII. It is very difficult to dig the enemy out of a system, then keep it. As soon as I would take a system, the AI would push me out or I would have to abandon it to get my battle fleet repaired (hanging around with a damaged fleet will get your *** kicked on a small board). Many a crippled ship was left floating to be later destroyed by the enemy. I even returned to the system after limping home and repairing to be greeted by a minefield. A very surprisingly, unplesant surprise.

Maybe you guys should stop playing on YOUR terms and see if you can play on it's terms. The AI seems to like the small Boards. The medium was okay, but it got a little tedious by the time I met up with them. Large Boards in any 4X games, give us anal retentive humans too much time to plot.

I hear so much "back off and let me build up my empire", then challenge me AI. Then you are dissapointed when it can't. I like the small Boards and apparently so does the AI. You want an "aggressive" AI, I just gave you the formula. It isn't so much a plea for help as it is an argument for masochism. Try it, I am sure you will like it.