Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]

[Aristoteles]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Elven Archers with 77 precision and Armor Negating bows. Oh, and of course it would be totaly balanced for you, because they are Elves and they have only 66613697 Hp, and that is mighty 1 Hp less than Elven Warrior has!

Non of your business. Stop posting in this thread? You make no sense. No wonder that you are rated 2 stars. I gave you the worst rating now. You are an idiot.

[MStavros]

Originally posted by Aristoteles:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nerfix:
Elven Archers with 77 precision and Armor Negating bows. Oh, and of course it would be totaly balanced for you, because they are Elves and they have only 66613697 Hp, and that is mighty 1 Hp less than Elven Warrior has!

Non of your business. Stop posting in this thread? You make no sense. No wonder that you are rated 2 stars. I gave you the worst rating now. You are an idiot.

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I reckon.

[Nerfix]

Yeah whatever. I'm sure itching to see your migthy mod...
I have no delusions that i could ever make something actualy balanced, and i don't think that neither can you, and i have very litle faith on all you mod-dudez.
I will now stop posting in this thread, potentialy in the whole board because Shrapnel relase has atracted GFX worshipping whining idiots here.

[PDF]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Rigth.
I would have never believed that Pocus will also go so deep that he will make map featuring Elves with ungodly stats.

I hate mods because they are always made by some wannabe-game-developper-1337's who can't even alphatest their mods, make half-assed, unbalanced changes, add some buggy extra sprites, and behave like kings of the world after they have finished their "great project".

No, that's not true in all cases : some MTW mods, EU1-2 mods, HoI Mods, SE4 mods, AOW mods, EFS mods, SPWaW mods, CC mods, and undoubtly other I either don't know of or have forgotten, are indeed BETTER than the vanilla game (and sometimes many times so) !
And I only talk about "rules" mods, many other games just benefit for additionnal/redone artwork.

Anyway noone forces anyone to use mods : you don't like them, then ignore them.
Mod-lovers/Modders just want to be able to mod, why bash them for it ? Illwinter will decide what openness they put in the game, it's pointless and somewhat trollish/stupid to ask for no moddability...

Edit : didn't read all of Nerfix' post before replying, Nerfix quit also ... Sad 'cause he was Dom2 betatester, a real fan and veteran, and had insights and ideas, but he was maybe somewhat too much intolerant...


[ September 25, 2003, 22:39: Message edited by: PDF ]

[Aristoteles]

Originally posted by PDF:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nerfix:
Rigth.
I would have never believed that Pocus will also go so deep that he will make map featuring Elves with ungodly stats.

I hate mods because they are always made by some wannabe-game-developper-1337's who can't even alphatest their mods, make half-assed, unbalanced changes, add some buggy extra sprites, and behave like kings of the world after they have finished their "great project".

No, that's not true in all cases : some MTW mods, EU1-2 mods, HoI Mods, SE4 mods, AOW mods, EFS mods, SPWaW mods, CC mods, and undoubtly other I either don't know of or have forgotten, are indeed BETTER than the vanilla game (and sometimes many times so) !
And I only talk about "rules" mods, many other games just benefit for additionnal/redone artwork.

Anyway noone forces anyone to use mods : you don't like them, then ignore them.
Mod-lovers/Modders just want to be able to mod, why bash them for it ? Illwinter will decide what openness they put in the game, it's pointless and somewhat trollish/stupid to ask for no moddability...

Edit : didn't read all of Nerfix' post before replying, Nerfix quit also ... Sad 'cause he was Dom2 betatester, a real fan and veteran, and had insights and ideas, but he was maybe somewhat too much intolerant...

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I agree with you. Well said.
As for Nerfix...he sounds like an idiot. Who cares, if he won't post.
All of his replies in this thread were full with idiotism.

[licker]

Nerfix was not Dom2 betatester... he is good at ferreting out info from their Dom2 update log though

I don't think he'll really quit the forums for very long though, as he is a self described addict. I don't get the hostility towards mods and modders though, I mean you don't have to look at, let alone play, with any mods. I suppose an arguement could be made that the devs would spend too much time making the game more moddable, and less time finishing the game, but at this point I don't think thats a very strong arguement.

I dunno, mods are generally good things, most mods are crap, but theres always a few that manage to make the game more interesting for individual styles, besides I'd assume that most if not all MP is gonna be with Vanilla until people have had time to figure out any balance issues they feel are needed, and seemingly Illwinter is good at making many of those changes official anyway.

I'm hoping for greater ability to script and make maps, rather than all out modding though

[Mortifer]

Well er....Nerfix's replies werent very creative, I must admit that.
In fact...he had no points, that is true as well.
As I said, the best would be to allow the players to make mods, if they want, no players are forced to play with any mods.
Just think. A LotR mod for example, would be very interesting and useful, since lot of players are huge LotR fans.
Balance? If you spend enough time to balance your mod, it can be perfect.

To me this isnt a question. Players should be allowed to make their little world. Why to put in limits? If Illwinter will be able to release the tools, databases etc. than why not?
Mods are keeping the games and communities alive. Trust me in that.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by PDF:
No, that's not true in all cases : some MTW mods, EU1-2 mods, HoI Mods, SE4 mods, AOW mods, EFS mods, SPWaW mods, CC mods, and undoubtly other I either don't know of or have forgotten, are indeed BETTER than the vanilla game (and sometimes many times so) !
And I only talk about "rules" mods, many other games just benefit for additionnal/redone artwork.

Anyway noone forces anyone to use mods : you don't like them, then ignore them.
Mod-lovers/Modders just want to be able to mod, why bash them for it ? Illwinter will decide what openness they put in the game, it's pointless and somewhat trollish/stupid to ask for no moddability...

Edit : didn't read all of Nerfix' post before replying, Nerfix quit also ... Sad 'cause he was Dom2 betatester, a real fan and veteran, and had insights and ideas, but he was maybe somewhat too much intolerant...

I havn't played much in the way of moddable games, but I surely like to mod. After all, thats what creating Dominions II is all about for me. I would probably try to mod other games as well if they were easily moddable. I do like to create new maps and scenarios in other games, but rarely finish what I do. It is generally more rewarding to change and add stuff in Dominions. Still ,I have put many hours into mapediting in other games and enjoyed every minute of it.

I am a bit scared of what people might do to my little game if it was freely moddable , but on the other hand I believe most people would prefer to play on serious mods. Survival of the fittest so to speak. And if people like to create SP scenarios where balance is screwed I shouldn't worry (I tell myself).

[Bard of Prey]

Modding also has a lot more uses than fixing balance and other issues. In fact, if modders are spending their time 'fixing' balance issues, then that's a sign that there's something deeply wrong with the game... and from what I've seen so far of Dom I, I don't think this is likely to be a problem for Dom II.

The real purpose of modding in a well-designed game should be to add things that the developers either never thought of, or didn't have time to implement. Having the creativity of hundreds of people to draw on can only improve a good game in the long run.

I would also like to see more options added to Dom II for modding, but the idea of waiting for a patch to get them doesn't bother me either. Think of all the things you could do with good modding tools... new nations, new pretender gods, new themes, etc. A group of dedicated modders could expand the variety of the game far more in a short time than a small number of developers could hope to do in years...

[Edit: @ Kristoffer, who slipped in ahead of me - I know exactly how you feel. I love to create new maps and scenarios for games, and in the Last year or two I've gotten pretty heavily into modding for various games. I also understand your fears about what people might do to your 'baby'.

All I can say is, give us the tools and we'll be gentle... we may even surprise you...

Oh, and since this is my first post here, I probably should have mentioned that I just recently found the Dom I demo, and I'm loving it. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what you do with Dom II... whether I get to gut it and mess around with its innards or not... ]

[ September 25, 2003, 23:04: Message edited by: Bard of Prey ]

[MStavros]

Yes, modding/editing is an awesome part of gaming. I have seen incredible mods, and they were lot better than the vanilla game, and they were perfectly balanced.
The developers must give us the ability to mod this wonderful game. It is fun for us, and fun for everyone. I am very happy that Aristoteles plan to make a LotR mod, I am a fan of the tolkien world as well.
The possibilites are endless, if the modding tools will be good enough.

More Diversity = More Fun

[ September 25, 2003, 23:07: Message edited by: MStavros ]