Thoughts on New Era Pangaea

[st.patrik]

Has anyone tried New Era Pangaea? What do you think?
Here are my thoughts:

• The Grove Guards are really cool, though very resource-expensive. These guys have the highest prot rating of any Pangaea unit (18), lots of HP, good morale, and go berserk! Great against knights/HI - they trample the HI (which is armour piercing) and chop the knights up with those big 9 damage axes.

• The Satyr Hoplites are not so different from vanilla, but are a great complement to the Grove Guards - resource-expensive (19) but not too expensive in gold (13). As good at dealing with LI as the GGs are at dealing with HI.

• The Dryad Hoplites are way expensive (50 gold, 22 resources) given that their main advantage over their satyr cousins is that they are sacred. They have worse HP, prot, and str - only slightly better Magic Resistance and Movement, and the awe effect. This at about 4 times the gold cost.

• The Centaur Cataphracts are nice, but not so different from vanilla Pangaea.

• There are remarkably few units available for New Era Pangaea: only 5 commanders and 8 troop types. They lack a good scout, and a good ranged unit.

My suggestions for change:
• Make the Grove Guards sacred.
There is little incentive to buy Minotaur Soldiers right now - yeah they're cheaper, but their only advantage is a slight movement advantage. Besides it would fit perfectly with the Grove Guard theme - caretakers of the sacred groves. This would make me happy

• Reduce the price of Dryad Hoplites, and give them a strategic move of 2
They are simply too expensive to warrant use - they need some kind of boost to make them attractive, or a price reduction. Also since New Era has no good troops that can move 2 territories it would be a nice advantage to give the dryad hoplites.

• Bring back Black Harpies, or make a new 'Satyr Scout' commander
There isn't a good way to scout right now - dryads are too expensive, Pans are WAY too expensive. If there were either Black Harpies or a Satyr Scout for 50 gold or less it would fill this gap nicely.

• Add a better ranged unit
The only ranged troops New Era has are the satyrs with javelins, which aren't great. How about a Satyr Crossbowman? or a Satyr Hoplite variant that has a javelin but costs more? or else bring back the Centaur Longbows.


There are my thoughts - anyone else got any thoughts on New Era Pangaea?

[apoger]

>Has anyone tried New Era Pangaea? What do you think?

I like it, but it's a shard lacking.


>• The Grove Guards are really cool,

Love them.


• The Satyr Hoplites are not so different from vanilla,

Slightly less resource and 2 higher protection. They are much better, and can stand toe to toe with most other infantry. Not bad at all.


• The Dryad Hoplites are way expensive

Wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole.


• The Centaur Cataphracts are nice, but not so different from vanilla Pangaea.

Pro-18 is awesome! These guys are great.


>They lack a good scout, and a good ranged unit.

This is true.


>• Make the Grove Guards sacred.

This might be too strong.


>Minotaur Soldiers

... are worthless since they lack beserk.
Frankly the standard "unarmored/beserker" Version from the main theme is *much* better.


> Bring back Black Harpies

The loss of harpies is harsh. But there has to be some loss for the improved military.


>Add a better ranged unit

This I agree with. No reason why "new age" military would forget bows. The centaur longbow should be added back. It would round out the theme nicely.

[Gandalf Parker]

Inklings of "new era" had me worried. I was afraid they were going to "Ulm" all of the special play nations. Stupid Me.

Im glad to see New Era for those who kept trying to play Pangaea as a more standard army. And Im thrilled that they rounded out the "default" Pangaea with more stealth units. The only thing it didnt get was an assassin but with blood magic thats not hard to fix.
Just my humble (usually off-center) opinion

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by apoger:
>• The Dryad Hoplites are way expensive

Wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole.

Sir, are you underestimating the effects of awe?

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Nerfix:

quote:

---

Originally posted by apoger:
>• The Dryad Hoplites are way expensive

Wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole.

Sir, are you underestimating the effects of awe?

---

I remember Alex saying he was unimpressed by awe in the past.

Awe is what allows pyrotechnics Phoenixes to grab early independent provinces all by themselves with a bit of Alteration and Evocation research, and it's also what allows Virtues to survive when meleing average morale troops (and in a Doms 1 MP game I had a Virtue survive a fight with 4 Hydras before she managed to enslave them).

However awe still sucks in the endgame when everybody is fielding armies of summons with 30 or 50 morale. And of course it won't help you vs Ermor and its ilk. So it's helpful, sometimes, but surely not earth-shattering.

[apoger]

>Sir, are you underestimating the effects of awe?


I wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole... after making a morale check.


No I am not a fan of "awe" nor the dryads. Dryads should stay barefoot in the forest cooking by the campfire while the Minotaurs go out and make a living.

[st.patrik]

Originally posted by Nerfix:

quote:

---

Originally posted by apoger:
>• The Dryad Hoplites are way expensive

Wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole.

Sir, are you underestimating the effects of awe?

---

I for one haven't noticed dryad hoplites holding up much better than satyr hoplites in combat (unblessed or modest blessings) - in other words I haven't seen awe make much of a difference

[HJ]

Awe & fear seem to work well together. And since they are the only awe-inspiring sacred units, it's an interesting combination to try out. It all depends on what you pit them against.

[PvK]

Originally posted by st.patrik:
...

• The Dryad Hoplites are way expensive (50 gold, 22 resources) given that their main advantage over their satyr cousins is that they are sacred. They have worse HP, prot, and str - only slightly better Magic Resistance and Movement, and the awe effect. This at about 4 times the gold cost.

...
• Reduce the price of Dryad Hoplites, and give them a strategic move of 2
They are simply too expensive to warrant use - they need some kind of boost to make them attractive, or a price reduction. Also since New Era has no good troops that can move 2 territories it would be a nice advantage to give the dryad hoplites.
...

You may be entirely right - I haven't studied them - but are you considering that if they survive, being sacred halves their cost in the long run (halves maintenance cost)? Or, that since they're sacred, to make the most of them, they'd be using bless effects?

PvK

[st.patrik]

Originally posted by PvK:

quote:

---

Originally posted by st.patrik:
...

• The Dryad Hoplites are way expensive (50 gold, 22 resources) given that their main advantage over their satyr cousins is that they are sacred. They have worse HP, prot, and str - only slightly better Magic Resistance and Movement, and the awe effect. This at about 4 times the gold cost.

...
• Reduce the price of Dryad Hoplites, and give them a strategic move of 2
They are simply too expensive to warrant use - they need some kind of boost to make them attractive, or a price reduction. Also since New Era has no good troops that can move 2 territories it would be a nice advantage to give the dryad hoplites.
...

You may be entirely right - I haven't studied them - but are you considering that if they survive, being sacred halves their cost in the long run (halves maintenance cost)? Or, that since they're sacred, to make the most of them, they'd be using bless effects?

PvK

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I understand that those are the reasons why they're so expensive - but I still think that being almost 4x as expensive (in gold) as otherwise comparable units is too much. They are more expensive than wardens, for example, and I think Wardens have the better stats by a long shot.