MOD: Sidhe War Godess (Man - Last of Tuatha) - please test

[Arralen]

Hello folks, had to waste some spare time (which i doesn't have) on modding the -to me- most annoying pretender - the Mother of Tuatha.

Changed her into a "Sidhe War Godess"

Would be glad if someone could do a little test with "Last of Tuatha"-theme and give some comments.

[ April 09, 2004, 21:12: Message edited by: Arralen ]

[rabelais]

Well I just played the first 15 turns... she's definitely a better combatant, and putting stealth back in is obviously a thematically good thing.

She's fun, though it would be more aesthetically appropriate I think if the skull necklace got replaced once you filled your final misc slot. Dunno if this is nontrivial.

The problem (if any) is... Man has very few nation points to play with. The sidhe theme is mostly about bless effects. It also forces you to take magic/luck+1 and 1/1/1

The arithmetic suggests that you simply don't have room for significant extra magic on the expensive base pretender.

t1/p3/temp0/g3/L1/m1 castle gives you 9 points to play with.... i.e. 2/1/1. Not sure if EWN makes sense as the base paths. Fire? and No Air?

Efficient in combat to be sure, but perhaps implausible as sidhe alpha babe.

I doubt anyone would play the sidhe theme over the default man, just because the without the bless effects (crunch courtesy of the luck 1) the sacreds aren't that interesting, and the sidhe mages are a *bit* more expensive.

So I think the mod is fun, quite well done... and very unlikely to be usuable in MP... for sidhe at least.

I'm not really sure how to fix this, because she is such a good pretender that she shouldn't cost any less. Maybe if one were playing a modded game with more than 500 base points. (Is this possible yet?) Either that or cut the base cost and take the paths down to 2 or 1 or even none, even though that hurts her out-of the-box SC potential considerably.

I like it a lot. But not using the sidhe.


Rabe the Third Skull from the Top

[ February 25, 2004, 13:48: Message edited by: rabelais ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by rabelais:

The problem (if any) is... Man has very few nation points to play with. The sidhe theme is mostly about bless effects. It also forces you to take magic/luck+1 and 1/1/1

While certainly not an expert, I have played a lot of Man, mostly with the Tuatha theme, and without bless effects. I use the Glamour of the Daoine Sidhe to help protect them from the arrows of Longbowmen, so they are ordered to throw their javelins and close in.

Plus, the Tuatha mages may be expensive, but I like them as battlemages. Research is done by Bards, of course.

I doubt anyone would play the sidhe theme over the default man, just because the without the bless effects (crunch courtesy of the luck 1) the sacreds aren't that interesting, and the sidhe mages are a *bit* more expensive.

The part where I agree is that I usually don't have a good bless effect with Sidhe (sometimes Earth 4, for the Mage reinvigoration)...

[Leif_-]

Originally posted by rabelais:

I doubt anyone would play the sidhe theme over the default man, just because the without the bless effects (crunch courtesy of the luck 1) the sacreds aren't that interesting, and the sidhe mages are a *bit* more expensive.

Not with this pretender, perhaps - but I've had a lot of fun with the sidhe theme using the Oracle with astral 9, order +3, luck +1, magic +1, dominions 7 and a 80 point castle.

[rabelais]

The point was to test the sidhe theme with the modded pretender.

I was running sidhe-oracle9 in the MP game that crashed. Was doing fairly well, (most land second in income, army size) though nothing resembling a fight had broken out.

With the SWG, there is no point to building sacreds as such,... they may still be good, and good enough on their own merits, but almost all MP's would take the pretender and avoid the theme, which I think was not the modder's intention.


Rabe the Re-iteRanter

[Arralen]

Have some spare time over the Easter Holidays. So started updating my mods to domVersion 2.11 ...

So the godess is "really female" again, or at least should be .. .

Had to remove the scull necklace, as it is in fact armor and causes some troubles when the lady is equiped with a forged shield and/or armor. If we can mod magic items one day, I could make one the uses a misc. slot, what will get me rid of those problems. On the other hand, maybe the nill-enc armor was too good anyway, or I should have upped the costs accordingly (125pts?)

Replaced the Hide Shield with a Great Hide Shield (from machaka hoplite) .. after all, she does carry a really big shield

Some hints:
I feel that she's rather cheap as a pretender, even close to cheating. Bless effects don't start a level 9, you know.
And if you take order, you needn't take luck. But having luck works quite well with order 0, and you'll need the money for the expensive sidhe/tuatha commanders. On the other hand, you don't need that much ressources, as the basic premise of a sidhe army is to keep losses low ...

And I take Last of the Tuatha especially for the bless effects. And that's what I created this cheat, err, pretender for

A.

Link in first post updated !

[rabelais]

I thought the sidhe theme required both luck 1 and magic 1. Very constraining in this case.

As I said she's a very fine pretender, there's just no room for a significant bless effect, without TOTALLY crippling your economy, which won't do, given the price of the daoine/mages/longbowmen.

I liked the war necklace both functionally and thematically..., I was just pointing out that ideally it would be "hooked" to a different slot.

If you are going to raise her cost (shudder!), I suggest you give her the equivalent of a Shield of Valor to start. She'll really be all alone out there.


Regards,

Rabe the OverBudget

[Arralen]

Originally posted by rabelais:
I thought the sidhe theme required both luck 1 and magic 1. Very constraining in this case.

no doubt it is

As I said she's a very fine pretender, there's just no room for a significant bless effect, without TOTALLY crippling your economy, which won't do, given the price of the daoine/mages/longbowmen.

Depends what you see as a "significant bless". With the high def the sidhe have, water 4 or 6 is all that is needed to make a great difference. Defense of 17/18 plus glamor pretty much makes shure they aren't hit unless going up against 3 times their number and especially good attackers. Add earth 4 for reinv. 2, and they won't suffer (-1 on defense) from fatigue for at least 3 turns of close combat (javelin throwing doesn't count!), and with additional death 4 for lesser fear they route any most troops within those 3 turns.

I liked the war necklace both functionally and thematically..., I was just pointing out that ideally it would be "hooked" to a different slot.

It did cause some problems when I gave her some forged armor/shield in game.

If you are going to raise her cost (shudder!), I suggest you give her the equivalent of a Shield of Valor to start. She'll really be all alone out there.

I "optimizied" her for 3 lvl-4 blesses, and she (too) good at it. With 4 water/earth/death and DOM5 she's got 207 points left - beats the Ghost King by 52 and the P.o.D. by 32 points.

All in all, it's MAN/TUATHA that is expensive all by itself .. with the luck/magic +1 fixed and no negative scales available.

Maybe I should mod the theme/nation to make the sidhe less expensive, so turmoil 1 would be a possiblity ??

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Arralen:
Maybe I should mod the theme/nation to make the sidhe less expensive, so turmoil 1 would be a possiblity ??

Turmoil is functionally required with the sidhe as is. And the Sidhe leaders are amazing war mages, it would be hard to justify.

I ran t2/p3/cold1/g3/l3/m1 when all I was using for a pretender was an astral-9 oracle (168pts+7 for dom 4--->5 = 325 left.

Since the fortified city is essential with sidhe.... (EVERYTHING is cap only) to go with fewer positive scales you'd have to kill growth or productivity. Either hurts your economy. Plus the former reduces your ability to overtax your capital (essential to stay competitive early) or recruit your precious sacreds long term.

Luck is still a poor investment, but it's definitely all or nothing,.... and with longbowmen driving the expansion I was even the largest nation in a large MP game till it died a horrid and tragic magnetic death.

Of course it was near turn 20 and I still hadn't managed to recruit a sidhe-holy 3 leader to make prophet, so clearly the economy was *TIGHT*

Water 4 is fine for sidhe, but water 9 or astral9 is quite a bit better, even mobbing doesn't phase them. Regrettably Astral/Blood 9 is the only thing even remotely afforable.

Assuming you are going for 4/4/4 in the start paths with the SWG, you might get by, but it's hardly ideal, since this is the only config that makes *any* sense, and there will be no variety between designs.

I love the pretender. But I can't do the math in a way that favors the sidhe over default man in MP.


Rabe the Admiringly Skeptical