Got home, got manual, got disappointed!

[Skanvak]

Yes, the manual is very bad , mine lack even the victory conditions. It would be nice of Illwinter to put a complete manual Online (and re-edited the one which is dsitribute).

Very un-happy with the manual.

[Leif_-]

Originally posted by Skanvak:
Yes, the manual is very bad , mine lack even the victory conditions. It would be nice of Illwinter to put a complete manual Online (and re-edited the one which is dsitribute).

Very un-happy with the manual.

While I'm not going to sing the unmitigated praise of the manual, is the Dominions II manual really any worse than what's usual for strategy games these days? IMO it's somewhat better than average - of course, with Dominions II being the game that it is, that isn't really sufficent.

*sighs* Oh, for a return to the golden era of computer games - back when the Amiga was Queen of World and games actually came with large, well-written manuals (and extras.) The likes of Ultima V, or Flight of the Intruder - or even Eye of the Beholder.

[PDF]

Originally posted by Gateway103:

quote:

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Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Oh, I should mention that I just made that up. Ha, ha! I didn't really think anyone would take it seriously...

Finding the formula would be tough, since it doesn't even exist in the game code - the precision formula just tells the projectile where to land; it does not give it a probability of hitting a given square.

What! And we trusted you!!!

That'll teach us to trust the "reputable" Saber Cherry

-Gateway103

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Moreover the formula wasn't that stupid, and gave credible results for a good range of outcomes !
Anyway there HAS to be some kind of formula/model determining where the stuff land - IIRC Dom2 doesn't model a full physical world !

[Tricon]

Originally posted by Skanvak:
Yes, the manual is very bad , mine lack even the victory conditions. It would be nice of Illwinter to put a complete manual Online (and re-edited the one which is dsitribute).

Very un-happy with the manual.

Have to agree with LEIF here. It is a general problem with strategy games, that "good manuals" as we oltimers know'em are almost nonexistant nowadays. (But times change. Back when I started (pc)gaming, strategy gides came out a few months after the game was published.)
The dominions manuall isn't that bad compared to others.
Now, that doesn't mean I wouldn't like an updated manual. And if this were a big company, maybe I would be more vocal. But the producers of this game are busy making new patches - changing the game even further. But that's OK with me. I'ld rather have a few bugs removed, maybe a new theme or five, than have a first rate manual with a weakly supported game (thinks of moo3, screams with rage!).

In all honesty, seeing the strong fan base, it wouldn't surprise me if one (or a few) of the forum members created his/their own updated manual, in time.

[Chazar]

To my surprise, I've found that the Dom I-manual, which can be downloaded from Illwinters Website, is a bit more verbose than the Dom II manual.

I dont know Dom I, but much of the deleted text from Manual DomI to DomII seems to be integrated into RightClick-PopUps now, which is very useful generally speaking (although it nerves me that you just cant look up the descriptions of the nations in the DomII manual), but there also seems to be other information which might not have become obsolete in DomII...why did they delete it?
Saving pages to reduce printing cost? Then rather skip the grimoire, as this is less useful IMHO, since you need to know a spells school/level in order to look it up, which is difficult if you are new to the game...A spreadsheet-file for sorting/filtering was much more helpful for me, and certainly much more uptodate with those patches...

But as I said: I guess I dont really want to know more of the mechanics, I just want to know that everybody else I might play does not know that much more than I do...

[ March 17, 2004, 14:28: Message edited by: Chazar ]

[Kelan]

Heheh, my initial reaction when I saw the formula was that you made it up, but I wasn't sure and it turned out to be somewhat realistic as some here have already mentioned .

About the manual, though, I was very pleased with it overall. It includes much more than many games will give you and the full spell and item reference was a very nice addition. I am used to having to purchase a "clue book" for information like that.

One of the things that would be nice, though, is a brief overview of each nation and its general strengths/weeknesses and unit types. I don't recall reading that, but some of this information is included in game and there is an explanation of each on the nation select screen. This along with some type of tutorial to understand how the game works and get that initial nudge, but the walkthru out now does that very well.

I would also like to comment on how well the in game documentation is done. I really like how you can get information on just about every item/stat in the game. The hotlinks and popups that give detailed information are really nice, especially in the spell research area where you can see the lists of spells and get detailed descriptions of each. Or, if you are on a unit portrait, you can get detailed information on each unit stat (and what is currently affecting it), equipment, and abilities. That in itself really can help the learning curve and makes it so that a manual isn't even necessary for many parts of the game. Of course, it does take some time to get to know your way around and realize all of this information is there .

Granted that not everyone knows about this site and the references created, but those fill out the rest of the information nicely and gives a player just about all one could ask for as documentation for a game.

Oh, and weren't the old Ultima games great, Leif? I remember saving months worth of money as a young teenager so that I could get Ultima III and then IV. Those were great adventures.

[Leif_-]

Originally posted by Kelan:
Oh, and weren't the old Ultima games great, Leif? I remember saving months worth of money as a young teenager so that I could get Ultima III and then IV. Those were great adventures.

Actually, I only ever played V - which I thought was quite good, but not a particularly great game. The way it had you roll up your avatar, though, was interesting, and I wish that other games would have done a similar mechanism (and done it at least as well as Ultima V.) Other than that, what I most remember from Ultima V was idling on bridges to trigger an attack by trolls - that was the quickest way of gaining experience for much of the game. There was also a horrible design-decision in the plot - where you needed to pick a widget at some point in the game, and if you didn't, you basically ended up SOL at a later point.

Still, I really prefer the old "turn-based, tactical control of your party" in games such as Ultima or SSI's various AD&D games, to the hectic "slash and spell" of modern RPGs.

[Kelan]

Cool... the only thing I remember about Ultima V was one of my disks becoming corrupted and not being able to finish it (at least that is what I figured happened). That, and getting it for a birthday present from my girlfriend at the time. That had to be one of the best gifts I ever got .

Ultima III was cool, but the first time I went through the whole game and got to the end, I put the cards (or whatever they were) in the wrong order into the Exodus. Then, the game said something like, "You have failed, you lose." and it ended, heheh. I went through it completely a second time to complete it successfully, and this time talked to the correct person that told me the right way to place the cards. One thing I recall was when you died the game would write to the floppy disk (all the system had back then) so that you couldn't undo anything. I got real good at ripping the floppy disk out quickly when I was about to die .

Anyway, sorry to get side-tracked there. Back to Dom II...

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Leif_-:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelan:
Oh, and weren't the old Ultima games great, Leif? I remember saving months worth of money as a young teenager so that I could get Ultima III and then IV. Those were great adventures.

Actually, I only ever played V - which I thought was quite good, but not a particularly great game.

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A shame, you should have played Ultima IV. For my money, it was the best of all the Ultimas. Attaining (and keeping) the virtues in order to progress was a novel approach. You could lie, steal, murder, and be a generally nasty person with great rewards - but you needed to act virtously to succeed, and it was so easy and tempting to slip.

Beats those games where you are a generic good guy/bad guy by miles.

[condors]

from that era of games i personally favored wasteland (lots of fun with a bb gun)