Noob questions!

[Minrhael]

Just got the demo for this a couple days ago, loved it, ordered it up, express delivery, and it's still being processed 2 days later, I want it now! boohoo

Anyway, since it seems I'm stuck with the demo a few more days (which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't have that turn limit), can someone answer a couple questions I have?

Playing as Pythium, with Serpent Cult Dominion option, just in case it matters, no special orders given to any troops or commanders:

1) My serpent priest that I sent out with a few hydras and other troops cast some "green raindrop" spell that I think was fanaticism judging by the replay; I can't find a description in the magic spellbooks, but it seems to have killed off most of my own troops other than the hydras, is this supposed to happen and if so is there any way I can stop him from casting it? It was rather annoying since I couldn't have lost that battle no matter what, I didn't need whatever benefits the spell gave.

2) A province I had was taken over by 5 independent heroes. I lost the first army I sent in there, but killed off 4 of them. The Last one standing was some kind of green colored ogre looking thing with a sword. I went back with a larger army just to make sure, and he proceeded by himself to kill off a dozen hydras and 70 other troops, and they weren't the cheap troops, these were elites (it also appears he might have been using the "green raindrop" spell, I'm not sure, but it wasn't me this time because I didn't send along any spellcasters). Any idea what the heck this guy is and how in the world I'm supposed to kill him off?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Minrhael:
Playing as Pythium, with Serpent Cult Dominion option, just in case it matters, no special orders given to any troops or commanders:

1) My serpent priest that I sent out with a few hydras and other troops cast some "green raindrop" spell that I think was fanaticism judging by the replay; I can't find a description in the magic spellbooks, but it seems to have killed off most of my own troops other than the hydras, is this supposed to happen and if so is there any way I can stop him from casting it? It was rather annoying since I couldn't have lost that battle no matter what, I didn't need whatever benefits the spell gave.

The "green raindrop" spell is Poison. More than likely because your units were in range of the Hydra's Poison Aura. Fantatisim is a spell that goes "bling" and white stuff flashes on all your units.

2) A province I had was taken over by 5 independent heroes. I lost the first army I sent in there, but killed off 4 of them. The Last one standing was some kind of green colored ogre looking thing with a sword. I went back with a larger army just to make sure, and he proceeded by himself to kill off a dozen hydras and 70 other troops, and they weren't the cheap troops, these were elites (it also appears he might have been using the "green raindrop" spell, I'm not sure, but it wasn't me this time because I didn't send along any spellcasters). Any idea what the heck this guy is and how in the world I'm supposed to kill him off?

Thanks!

That is Illwinter's beloved Bogus the Troll and company. He's a little tough to kill early in the game; but later in the game, try using things that cut through armor like Armor Piercing, or Hydras or something similiar. You might want to try to cast Foul Vapors in the battle and wait for him to beat through a bunch of hydras. Or try using xbows.

[Norfleet]

Ah, the utter confusion of a newbie. I've clearly been playing way too many games, to never end up asking questions like this.

Anyway, as Zen said, the "Green raindrop spell" is not a spell at all: It's actually a vfx that indicates the unit is poisoned and taking poison damage as a result. The green drops will play every round that the unit remains poisoned.

Hydras have an aura that poisons units that stand near them: You should generally avoid mixing hydras with normal troops that are not immune to poison, because your hydras will emit noxious fumes that poison everyone else. Think about it as being similar to standing next to somebody with really, really bad flatulence.

As a a general rule of thumb, hydras should not be mixed with normal, non-poison-immune troops (unless you REALLY, REALLY know what you're doing or REALLY, REALLY want them to die, which may very well be the case). Use them in combination with construct and undead summoned units, which will be immune to the poisonous fumes.

Those independents you fought are the company of Bogus the Troll. I have no idea what their backstory is, but they're a nasty, unfriendly bunch. When in doubt, just remember that excessive force is always an option, albeit not necessarily cheap or economical. Killing 70 ordinary schmucks singlehandedly is not that hard to do for a powerful, well-equipped unit. Try using either better troops, or a more unreasonable number of them, like 700. Or both: An unreasonable number of better troops.

Remember: As a newbie, you're in a unique position to use your newbie intuition: Do you, using your newbie intuition, feel absolutely confident you will win? If not, you need a bigger hammer.

[ March 17, 2004, 07:06: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Those independents you fought are the company of Bogus the Troll. I have no idea what their backstory is, but they're a nasty, unfriendly bunch.

They are not a nasty bunch. Bogus and his friends are heroes, fighting the good fight in an evil time.

[Chazar]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Try using either better troops, or a more unreasonable number of them, ... Or Both: An unreasonable number of better troops.

Why has nobody told me that before? If I had only knewn this advice, a lot of games would have ended different for me...!

[Wendigo]

Bogus & co are better handled with subtlety than with mass force, there's no reason to take unnecesarily huge losses vs the heroes.
The best tactic vs them is to leave them alone until you can bring the necessary mage power.

The heroes:
-The Dark knight has good prot & def, and likes to fly & attack rearmost.

-The warrior mage enjoys buffing Bogus with spells, and might try to paralyze pretenders & other big critters.

-Fang the troll archer can sometimes be annoying with his magic bow (some say that he can still fire at mages/commanders DomI style).

-The troll mage likes Ghost wolves, might use Orb lightning if you come near though.

-Last but not least: Bogus! with regeneration, a wraith sword, high protection & berserk he will dive through hordes of live troops, even elites.
.
.
.

It might be a good idea to give your mages bodyguards to stall the Dark Knight.

Fliers with hold & attack rearmost orders work well vs the mages & the archer (hold because you do not want your fliers to run into Bogus).

Bogus is best dealt with by swarming him with hordes of lifeless troops (Raise skeletons & Raise the Dead are good spells here), that he cannot drain with his sword. He should eventually pass out to fatigue and get his huge protection pierced by the swarmers.

Alternatively, you can use MR based spells vs Bogus & the other 2 troll heroes with a pretty good chance of success, I did so recently in a MP game.

[Endoperez]

Slightly OT: how they came to be:
IIRC rught Bogus and friends, who have been part of Illwinter games from the times of Conquest of Elysium II, were characters in p&p rpg the devs played... I think that the system they used was EarthSiege. I'm not sure, though, as I remember that they have played Ars Magica too.

In CoE, sometimes when a battle was called up you was asked whether you want to pay 100 gp for this mercenary company that has decided to enjoy a quick fight. If you paid, they fought for you that one fight. Otherwise, they aided the lone deer or whatever that had just decided to walk through your smallest farm, and which you had decided to get back with that big army that happened to be near...

And in Dom 1 and, nowadays, II Bogus and his friends kill armies of various AIs, make daring attacks to free those pure-blooded virgins you have collected for Illwinter (the spell, most propably ) and ambush your pretender when he is on his way to get some helpful armies to the front.

Through the games and ages, Bogus has been the tough guy making us curse him or, when he decides to kill our enemies, hail for him. Others are a nasty bunch that slaughter your mages, buff Bogus and distract your armies long enough to let Bogus finish them off.
Or if they happen to be in a province with a volcano give a diseased, feeble-minded hoburg very sharp teeth so that he can snatch that ring from his hand...

Some tips:
Charm them!
Wind ride them to your Charmers!
Wind Ride them to defend your castle!
Wish for them and make one your prophet, just to see how other players take it!

[Teraswaerto]

Paralyze works great on Bogus & Co.

[Norfleet]

Fortunately for Minrhael, Bogus and Co appears to have lost the Co, and is now down to just Bogus.

Originally posted by Chazar:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Try using either better troops, or a more unreasonable number of them, ... Or Both: An unreasonable number of better troops.

Why has nobody told me that before? If I had only knewn this advice, a lot of games would have ended different for me...!

---

Well, often times, people have a tendency to act hastily and squander what they have already gathered by attacking prematurely, before excessive force can be brought to bear. It may bear mentioning that holding back until EXCESSIVE force can be brought to bear on the target, rather than simply waiting for a force you feel is adequate, may help more.

[DeathDaemon]

I had bogus and friends appear the turn I attacked an enemy capitol. He proceeded to destroy the huge enemy defensive force... and then mine too! Oh well, I left that enemy capitol alone... they were now no longer a threat;0