Juggernauts - how to kill them?

[JJ_Colorado]

Hi,

I've been playing a game as Abysia. Things were going great. I got into a war with Marignon, I'm steadily pushing them back, I have a couple of devil armies, a bunch of big armies led by Demonbred, I cast Forge of the Ancients, I'm pounding out lots of cool new magic items then I got hit by an army that included 4 Juggernauts. Over the Last 3 turns I've managed to kill almost every unit that is with the juggernauts, but the Juggernauts have destroyed(!!) 3 of my best armies by just squishing everybody in them. I haven't even killed on Juggernaut yet.

I've got the Juggernaut army trapped(?!) behind my lines and I am about to send in a devil army to kill the commanders which should hopefully end this painful episode....but I am still not sure how to actually kill the juggernauts themselves? I don't want to send in (Abysian-sized) high quality troops against them because they trample everything. I'm afraid to have my devils fight them because it would be really painful to watch them squish all of the devils.

What size of unit can escape trampling from them?

Can flying troops be trampled?

What is the best way to kill them?

Are there any special tactics or techniques to use against huge mindless lifeless tramplers?

Thanks,
John

[tinkthank]

Is this an AI opponent? I ask because Jugs are sacred, and bless effects could matter.

You say the jugs are more or less alone without support?

Recruiting some foreign crossbows could do the trick, together with quite a lot of el-cheapo militia types in smallish squads spread out across the field on hold or fire so that the jugs have to come and get them. And jugs are slow. Keep a few decent priests in the back for Fanatacism. Priests should be ok since the jugs will never make it back there.
Alternatively or as a boost: Cast Incinerate, that should take quite a chunk out of them.
Actually, you probably wont even need the xbows if you have a few incinerators. Since the jugs dont have much support troops, that should do the trick.
A few Warlocks casting Paralyze might work, but Im not sure about Jug MR.
Shouldnt be too much of a problem for you. About 100 gold worth of crud Milita plus what you have should mop them up.

[Pocus]

ahum, if I'm not mistaken, Jugg have no elemental immunities. So the answer is simply to kill them with any elemental attack. Use storm demons, use fire spells, use astral fire, etc.

Thats not that difficult I think for Abysia.

[JJ_Colorado]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice. Just to clear up a few things. This is against the AI. The 4 Jugs used to be surrounded by a huge army but I've killed off most of that army.

In two battles they ended up at my end of the battlefield after squishing my center formations, then going to the flank to squish my crossbowmen, then chasing my fleeing crossbows off the battlefield.

Their MR is really low, but the problem is that they have sooooo many hit points (200 each) that I'd have to cause 800 hp's of damage to kill them. That's really hard to do with fire spells that have a low precision. Incinerate might be a good idea though. Thanks. If I get close enough to hit them with spells like Flare or Falling Fires then they are close enough to squish my spellcasters. They rolled over a Demonbred and a Dragon (620 gold!! to replace those two guys) in my Last battle, so I'm gun-shy to say the least.

Anyway, I hadn't thought of using Militia to occupy them. Maybe I'll try that along with a bunch of crossbows. Shortbows wouldn't work I'm guessing cuz the Jugs have 20 armor.

If anyone knows more details about whether flying troops can be trampled, techniques to use to avoid trampling, etc that would be great.

Thanks,
John

[Gateway103]

Info on Trampling.

You can avoid being trampled only if you are of same or bigger size than the trampler. To view the size of the unit numberically, right click on unit, and right click on its hp. It'll list, among different things, the size of said unit.

I think the Juggernauts are size 6, so you need size 6 creatures to prevent the trampling effect. Of the fire summons though, only the Kings, and I think fire elementals, are size 6. Of Blood summon, the demon lords, and some cross-breeding units are size 6. So your options are somewhat limited.

As for fliers, flying do not offer any protection against trampling I believe. As long as they are of smaller size than the trampler, they will get trampled. Etheral helps, however, in that ehteral creatures are more likely to avoid the trampling damage.

Back to the Juggernauts, they are listed as magical beings, so any spells (Opposition?) or items (Moon Blade maybe?) targeting specifically magical beings may be of interest here too.

Hope this helps,

-Gateway103

Juggernauts are easy to kill especially if you have access to Astral. Try using Paralyze and in conjunction to that any single target damaging spell (even Star Fires). Since the targeting is to fire on the largest first with single target spells, if you have 100 Range, 100 Prec spells it will hammer into the Jugg's first.

[Firebreath]

Just to add to what someone started: spirits (the cheap death 1 summons) are omnipotent against large crusher units. They come excessively cheaply, in large quantities, and are virtually immune to trample damage (being ethereal, and maybe for some other reason too). Of course, you need at least 1 death 1 mage to build them.

They'll probably never kill a jugernaught, but they will keep them occupied for a very, very long time - during which your mages can probably do the lethal damage - with something like incinerate as suggested.

[Yossar]

Seen it suggested here twice, but wouldn't lifeless juggernauts be immune to paralyze?

[Nagot Gick Fel]

If your pretender is a size-6 demigod your best (and probably cheapes) recourse is to send him against these Jugs with ad hoc gear. A couple armor-piercing or negating weapons like Duskdaggers, or magic-killing weapons like Elf Banes should make short work of them. With decent defense it's unlikely the Jugs will even hit him. Just watch out for fatigue, since you can't get any back from lifeless constructs. Heavy armor and shield would be a bad idea here, but a Rainbow Armor and Boots of the Messenger will help nicely. Note that with your Forge of the Ancients (if it's still active) any mage can forge the equipment I listed.

[LintMan]

From what I understand, trample damage is based on the size differential between the trampler and trample-ee. So a size 3 trampler (minotaur?) is a lot less fearsome than a size-6 one.

If that's the case, it might also be feasible to use some of the large/cheap summons like fire drakes to take it on. I think they're size 5, so they might hold up better against the juggernaught, and the ice/fire ones can do elemental damage.

Another possiblility: summon some behemoths. It's not too hard to get a death-2 mage and +1 death item to get the to the death-3 level needed for behemoths.

Another idea: If you have the research level for it, I think golems are size 5, have 2S magic and you can buff/equip them up to (near?) SC level power (try astral shield/astral weapon/luck/boots of quickness/some high-prot (or ethereal) armor & shield/sword of swiftness).