Dev Thinking on Balance?

[Pirateiam]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pirateiam:
I am currently in s MP game fighting CatQuiet's VQ.(I had the unenviable luck of being standard Ulm and his nieghbor) I can verify that what he said is easily attainable! If a player such as CatQuiet who is very skilled with the VQ tells you it needs some balancing I would listen.

Pff. Catquiet's VQ doesn't scare me. I'm due to shortly counter it soon, and I fully intend on watching it crash and burn. Bring 'em on.

Frankly, I'm not surprised you can't kill it, if the depths of your ability involve hurling more and more troops at it. It's a strategy, and if you can't counter it, it'll eat you for lunch: A strategy that DOESN'T eat you for lunch if not countered is totally worthless! What the hell good is a strategy that doesn't even work on people who aren't prepared for it?

Besides, you're Ulm. He's Ermor. You were more or less screwed from the beginning, as Ulm is known to be weak against SG Ermor. Marignon vs. Abysia is another similar mismatch.

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Well Norfleet I will not comment on your insult since from all the other Posts I have read I know how disturbed you are and mental illnesses are not something to make fun of. Answer this simple question - What is your pretendar in this game???? Case closed

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jasper:
I don't think she is. She can be good, but there are others at least as good.

There aren't any that are as low risk though, or that can get out the door as fast. With mistform, mirror image, quickness, ironskin, and breath of winter she can conquer any independent province I've seen regardless of strength.

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Many pretenders can use these spells to conquer independent provinces. Being able to conquer an independent province a turn with your pretender is commonplace.

[Pirateiam]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pirateiam:
Are you kidding????....(beating head against wall) So let me get this straight - by say turn 12 you have a SC that has 40+HP(which is easily replenished from life drain), attack/Def of +18, flys, is poison immune, cold immune, fire or light immune,Is invulnerable, With quickness, luck, has life drain, does not fatigue, and if you actually some how kill the thing (yet to see it happen) it is back the next turn!!!!! (keeps beating head against wall) If you do not think this is possible...

No, I am not kidding. I do not think what you have described is extraordinarily strong. Such things are also possible with other pretenders, including ones that will beat a VQ head to head.

The fact that you are losing to this strategy is not by itself enough to convince me.

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Please list them.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Isnt that true of most gods you add those to?

Sure, but a feudal province can cause afflictions to them, and they get more fatigued as the battle goes on.

If the VQ is banished by priests does she still return?

Banishment just does damage if the MR check is failed, so it's no different than any other cause of death.

Isnt she susceptable to the same routing problem as other gods?

Immortals never rout in their dominion.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Catquiet's VQ doesn't scare me. I'm due to shortly counter it soon, and I fully intend on watching it crash and burn. Bring 'em on.

Besides, you're Ulm. He's Ermor. You were more or less screwed from the beginning, as Ulm is known to be weak against SG Ermor. Marignon vs. Abysia is another similar mismatch.

Ah, this Vampire Queen is played by Ermor? No wonder it's powerfull. One of Ermor's biggest strengths is it's powerfull pretender; this is more than compensated for by it's other weaknesses. Personally, in the same situation I would be glad that he wasn't playing something else, e.g. that didn't rely upon immortality and so wasn't afraid to enter your dominion.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
Well Norfleet I will not comment on your insult since from all the other Posts I have read I know how disturbed you are and mental illnesses are not something to make fun of. Answer this simple question - What is your pretendar in this game???? Case closed

And why do you think I am keenly aware of exactly how to rip one apart and send it crashing to the ground in a mangled heap? Besides, I have others, like a Vanheim game where I *HAVE* in fact, been facing down a VQ much like the one you describe, and am currently kicking its *** all over the map. I'm an Allfather there.

The problem is that YOU ARE NOT TRYING! It's a very common attitude amongst players these days: When they start losing to something on a regular basis, rather than countering it, they'd rather complain about how it's so awful. Meanwhile, the rest of us have a myriad arsenal of ways to counter, and are unintimidated. This doesn't invalidate that the strategy has great deal of merit to it, but it's not unstoppable....unless you can't be bothered to try.

Frankly, as I've pointed out, a strategy that fails even when not specifically countered is absolutely crap and utterly worthless. Hell, a dozen scouts with herald lances can easily burn out a VQ...and their scripts don't run out because they have NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN CAST.

[ May 04, 2004, 19:31: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
...I know how disturbed you are and mental illnesses are not something to make fun of...

Well, that's enough for me. Have fun with your mud slinging guys.

[Pirateiam]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pirateiam:
Well Norfleet I will not comment on your insult since from all the other Posts I have read I know how disturbed you are and mental illnesses are not something to make fun of. Answer this simple question - What is your pretendar in this game???? Case closed

And why do you think I am keenly aware of exactly how to rip one apart and send it crashing to the ground in a mangled heap? Besides, I have others, like a Vanheim game where I *HAVE* in fact, been facing down a VQ much like the one you describe, and am currently kicking its *** all over the map. I'm an Allfather there.

The problem is that YOU ARE NOT TRYING! It's a very common attitude amongst players these days: When they start losing to something on a regular basis, rather than countering it, they'd rather complain about how it's so awful. Meanwhile, the rest of us have a myriad arsenal of ways to counter, and are unintimidated. This doesn't invalidate that the strategy has great deal of merit to it, but it's not unstoppable....unless you can't be bothered to try.

Frankly, as I've pointed out, a strategy that fails even when not specifically countered is absolutely crap and utterly worthless. Hell, a dozen scouts with herald lances can easily burn out a VQ...and their scripts don't run out because they have NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN CAST.

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Sigh... I am trying. I spend many hours playing around with trying to come up with counters to the VQ but Alchemist Ulm sure is not on the list. I was meesing around with Ulm GC in this game and was hoping not to run into a SG Ermor. Sorry if I like to try crazy strategies not all of us are playing this to win everytime but just to have some fun....but you will never understand this.

[Huzurdaddi]

Many pretenders can use these spells to conquer independent provinces. Being able to conquer an independent province a turn with your pretender is commonplace.

Really? Please list.

Against indep strength 1? Almost all non humans.
Against indep strenth 3? Quite a few.
Against indep strength 9? 1 ( 2 if you are a water nation ).

No, really. I want to hear about all of these pretenders that can stomp indeps down flat. No, please. Oh and try to do it with something like 100 Research points please. Heck I'll give you 150.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Meanwhile, the rest of us have a myriad arsenal of ways to counter, and are unintimidated.

You claim that this "myriad arsenal" exists. I've yet to see anything besides send another SC after it. Most spell based strategies are ruined by the AI after all.

Hell, a dozen scouts with herald lances can easily burn out a VQ...and their scripts don't run out because they have NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN CAST.

I wasn't aware that 120 astral pearls was "easy". And no, it's not easy even if you have that many, since they only do 12 armor piercing damage each.

[ May 04, 2004, 20:39: Message edited by: Graeme Dice ]