Good game, but....the AI is very bad.

[Wikd Thots]

WIMPS!
You payed for the game. What diff if its one poor programmer? You can demand anything you want. I want to control units in fights like my other games. I want to save games so I can load if things are crap. I want cheat codes. And I want to play with my friends if we buy one disc.
I want all of that and I want it NOW because it should already be in it like the other games that cost this much!

[Darryl]

Ok, I generally lurk around here but I just have to say something here. I find the topic of this thread to be completely false and the way the concerns are given to be completely offensive. Point blank. To say that...

Originally posted by proteus:

A dev comment that it might be fixed...however they cannot guarantee it after lot of months..made me pissed.
So sorry for the tone of my Posts, but that made me very angry.

Pisses me off. Yes, I know you apologized for the tone, but it's the concept that you were pissed because something you wanted wasn't improved in the game as if they owe it to you to do that. You paid $50, so they should improve the AI (probably the HARDEST aspect of the programming) and do it NOW. I mean it's been 6 months, right? And you're pissed? They actually show up on the Boards and implement player suggestions that have nothing to do with bug fixes (like modding) and you're pissed off and feel like you've been robbed? You can get these changes without buying the "Dominions II Gold Pack" and you're upset because your changes weren't there? Like Illwinter/Shrapnel have "misled" you somehow? Please!

I think Illwinter is a better name than "two guys with computers and another guy poking his head in every so often" but as I understand it that's what it is. And these 2 guys do what major companies have been unable to AND respond to fans directly and you're angry. Not "wishing it would change", but "angry".

Now the very idea that someone has been gipped by buying this game is ludicrous, and to even hint at a suggestion that they "falsely advertised" the AI is beyond words.

Now I know something about programming (I've worked as a software engineer and, more than that, I did the Online grimorie ) and I can say that AI programming is difficult. To insinuate that "well it's easy just weight and have them do such and such" is insulting, as if they're in Tahiti drinking magaritas with their ill-gotten Dominions funds when they should take the 10 minutes to improve the AI. I mean how many games are supposed to provide a significant challenge after playing them for a few months?

Sorry for the rant, but I just think this is by far The Best Game I've Played bar none. I also think the devs are extremely accessible and responsive, and to suggest they "cheated" someone is completely out of control to me.

[Slygar]

Originally posted by delacroix:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Molog:
I know AOW, MOM have horrible cheating AI's. Most players don't seem to mind though.

I certainly don't mind, Master of Magic / Orion were funnest and toughest at the impossible settings even though the AI receieved significant bonuses at those levels .

Certainly if a player didn't want the CPU opponents to cheat they could just play at normal difficulty instead.

---

I agree with this.. let the AI cheat. Gem, income bonuses, randomly appearing forts, permenent +3 luck, +300 design points (for scales), whatever. Only on higher difficulty levels, of course.

Heh, a neat idea might be to have a moving bonus to AI scales, meaning that at normal difficulty all their scales go with the normal AI creation routines. At hard, they get all scales as normal, but with a +1 bonus or something? +3 at Impossible?

[ May 09, 2004, 06:54: Message edited by: Slygar ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Slygar:
I agree with this.. let the AI cheat. Gem, income bonuses, randomly appearing forts, permenent +3 luck, +300 design points (for scales), whatever. Only on higher difficulty levels, of course.

The AI already DOES get bonus design points at higher difficulties. There's no income or gem bonus, however, above what it gains from having superior scales due to bonus points and better searching due to more magic from said points.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Wikd Thots:
WIMPS!
You payed for the game. What diff if its one poor programmer? You can demand anything you want. I want to control units in fights like my other games. I want to save games so I can load if things are crap. I want cheat codes. And I want to play with my friends if we buy one disc.
I want all of that and I want it NOW because it should already be in it like the other games that cost this much!

You got what you paid for. You had every opportunity to check the demo out before you coughed up the money. The things you complain about are design decisions, you might as well demand that your chessmaster game should have a spurts of blood and cute battle sounds, or that you should be able to tactically control a battle that played out whenever two chess pieces enter the same square. There is no law that point by point details what features a game should have. Had dom 2 been marketed as having these things you demand you would have a case, but it doesn't. You can make any demands you like, but unless they are reasonable noone is going to pay attention to them.

[Norfleet]

JO, I hope he was being sarcastic. Because otherwise he needs to be taken out back and given a sound beating.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
JO, I hope he was being sarcastic. Because otherwise he needs to be taken out back and given a sound beating.

You might be right. If you check his profile he claims one of his interests is trolling, and his occupation is irritant. I guess I swallowed his hook and bait. Don't click on his hompeage whatever you do though.

[Norfleet]

Ah, yes, his homepage. I've heard about that one before. I take it you clicked on it?

[johan osterman]

Yup

[proteus]

Yes, yes I understand what you say of course.
I never demanded anything imho, I only posted my opinion.
Now a question for the developers: Dont you think that hella LOT of players would be thankful for the AI improvements?? I am totally sure that hella LOT of players are waiting for AI improvements, they just _dont_say_it_ here, and why? Propably because they know the anser from the devs:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Perhaps all the pointless complaining made us pissed.

Is this really pointless??? I am totally sure that this is far from pointles!!

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

The reason I do not say that there will not be an AI improvement is because we also feel that the AI should be improved.

The devs know that the AI is weak. I am pleased to see that they know this at least.

I guess my first post told you about the AI weaknesses:

1. The AI is massing weak troops. Why? I see hella lot of light infantry and cheap troops. Pointless, they are toast.
2. The AI is making weird strategic decisions. It is moving around with strong commanders without a point, and without a decent army.
3. The AI is not equipping its heroes properly, sometimes not at all.
4. The AI is not protecting its heroes/commanders.
5. The AI isnt using the mid/late game spells very well.
6. The AI wont summon too many "heavyweight monsters". -> I wonder what the heck the AI is doing with its magic income.
7. The AI's battlefield tactics is kinda laughable as well.


I wasnt constructive? I dont think so.

Maybe my tone wasnt right, I am moderating myself now.
Still I am totally sure that everyone know that the AI weakness is a big problem, even if they dont say. And yes the Doms 2. AI is lot weaker than most of the 50$ strategy games.
I know that 2 men cannot make everything, but 6 months wasnt enough to improve the AI? After all those huge old threads about the AI??
This is what I cant understand.

I have seen an old poll about the sp-mp community here, and the poll ended up that we have more singleplayers! I think, that spending time to improve the AI is not a waste, in fact it should have priority on the 'to do list.' .. especially now, because after 4 patches we still wont have AI improvements.

Kris and the devs -> I never wanted to offend you, I wanted to be creative, I posted the bad parts of the AI, what should be improved, so I dont think that this was pointless.

P.

[ May 09, 2004, 11:07: Message edited by: proteus ]