Devil Review

[Taqwus]

Belial might be more effective than a Succubus. There's also no thematic reason why he'd be limited from corrupting female commanders, as well, and he probably has a far better chance of surviving a failed corruption. He also generates free blood slaves and meat shields, IIRC. Perhaps still not a particularly efficient purchase, but...

Now, if you get the Plague Wind, that might be a problem; doesn't he spread disease to the province he's in? Hm.

If you like thematic SCs, the Unquenched Sword seems obvious for any of the Archdevils, as would the non-unique flaming swords, demon whips, and perhaps tridents (stretching this a bit). For the Archdevils and Ice Devils, don't forget the MR boosters (starshine skullcap, antimagic talisman are cheap), flight/quickness (boots of quickness or Jade Armor for the Archdevil, winged shoes for the Ice Devil and have the ID script Quickness), perhaps a luck shield if you're using a one-handed weapon. And if you're dealing with specific attack forms, e.g. massed Incinerate and you've got an ID, get the relevant immunity (unless impossible, e.g. Drain Life is not really blockable; you can only mitigate it by massive reinvigoration e.g. Boots of Calius, regeneration, life draining attack of your own, other units to keep fighting while your unconscious or to absorb Drain Life spamming).

[Boron]

Soapyfrog said:
Demon Lords at 150 a pop, I fear you are better off building 2.5 soul contracts with that blood... however I have (just for fun) summoned Belial once and thought his ability to steal commanders was great fun Not very cost effective since you can get a succubus to do the same thing for less than half the blood.

Other problem with Demon Lords is that they do not have all the item slots so they are tough to equip properly...

A main reason for Demon lords is their good magic and if you have all 3 they cover all expect Water and Astral very well .
Belial can do the nature stuff and cast e.g. GoH with only 1 empowering item , Belphegor is a good Earth forger and Pazuzu can summon Storm demons and lead them in battle as supporting storm + wrathful sky caster .

Belphegor lacks the feet + body slot but he can cast invulnerability , blood vengeance , fire shield and phönix pyre .
177 hp are nice .
So he is not an outstanding SC but formidable .
Only the missing quickness sucks .

[Gandalf Parker]

incognito said:
Huzur - you mention Arch & Ice as important summons. What about Helio's? Any good on a relative basis or stick with vamps? Also what about the demon lords? A lot of blood slaves to be sure, but the stats look effectives.

Also, what are good equipment combos for the arch/ice? Do you equip all the same or is there a plan for variety & counters to certain anti-SC strategies?

Thanks for the great tips. Not sure I'll survive long enough to get these guys en masse (Van has launched an attack already), but it's sure nice knowing.

One of the things I love to do with demons is make assassins out of them if they can sneak (black heart). Especially if they can do bind-heart. Especially if they can summon other sneaks. Especially if they can fly. MUHAHahahahaha.

I think a bind-heart assassin is an ultimate strategy (please lets not start a thread to get it "fixed"). If they are coming at you with an army of say 5 commanders leading 50 troops each. You sneak in your assassin and have him strike. Their commander becomes your commander with all his equipment, and he is down one commander. The next message says there is a combat in that province as your new convert is visible and gets attacked by his old buddies. 50 troops rout for lack of a commander and some damage is done to his army. Your assassin is hidden and does not participate. Now your assassin strikes again. Another commander switches sides. Maybe the other guy moves his army but it still leaves 50 troops behind waiting for a new commander to lead them. You follow him and snatch commanders one by one chopping his army into bits scattered across the map or routed to nothingness. The Last commander is the most fun. He attacks his previous troops. One guy against 50 troops but they all rout for lack of leadership and you now own that province.

[Soapyfrog]

Gandalf Parker said:
I think a bind-heart assassin is an ultimate strategy

I am not sure it is "ultimate" since it is both counterable and has a chance of failure, but it is fun and it will give your oppoenents headaches, thats for sure!

[Cainehill]

Gandalf Parker said:
I think a bind-heart assassin is an ultimate strategy ...
You follow [enemy armies] and snatch commanders one by one chopping his army into

Problem is that you have to snatch a commander; move the next turn, guessing which way the enemy is going; if lucky, snatch a commander, else guess which way the enemy is going and try again.

Does Bind-Heart leave the target as a commander, or does it steal the willpower? I haven't played enough blood to know, but I find that Nature's Charm is somewhat superior to the Astral Version for that reason. In which case, one of Pangaea's big stealthy mages with flying boots and the black heart might be even more effective than the demon, since you get (for instance) fully equipped banelords and such on your side.

[Gandalf Parker]

Soapyfrog said:

I am not sure it is "ultimate" since it is both counterable and has a chance of failure, but it is fun and it will give your oppoenents headaches, thats for sure!

True. But there is also my favorite "step up".
A Garnet Amazon (red) province with a lab, 0 taxes, and no Province Defense. Send a lvl 5 air mage (or lvl 3 air mage with a Bag of Wind and that Winged Helm). Build amazon mages and set them to hunting blood slaves.

Have all the mages set to hellbind, hellbind, hellbind, attack. Have the air mage cast Wind Ride every turn against some province in your enemys territory. Its like a birthday present each turn. You want to rush to that province to see what you got and what items it had on it. The real prize is ending up having 2 or 3 prophets all working in your name.

[Gandalf Parker]

Cainehill said:
Does Bind-Heart leave the target as a commander, or does it steal the willpower? I haven't played enough blood to know, but I find that Nature's Charm is somewhat superior to the Astral Version for that reason. In which case, one of Pangaea's big stealthy mages with flying boots and the black heart might be even more effective than the demon, since you get (for instance) fully equipped banelords and such on your side.

Bind Heart does leave him as a commander. And seems to work more often than some of the others. Pangaea has stealthy gods which make for a fun assassin. Pandemoniacs make good bind-heart assassins also.

Another advantage with Pangaea for assassins is that even without a charm they speed up taking provinces ALOT! A Pan assassin tosses Maenads each turn. So you assassinate a commander then there is an attack by 3 or 4 loose maenads. It makes it easy to know when you get the Last commander, and the province is yours automatically without having to take another turn to do an attack.

[Boron]

Gandalf Parker said:

Bind Heart does leave him as a commander. And seems to work more often than some of the others. Pangaea has stealthy gods which make for a fun assassin. Pandemoniacs make good bind-heart assassins also.

Another advantage with Pangaea for assassins is that even without a charm they speed up taking provinces ALOT! A Pan assassin tosses Maenads each turn. So you assassinate a commander then there is an attack by 3 or 4 loose maenads. It makes it easy to know when you get the Last commander, and the province is yours automatically without having to take another turn to do an attack.

The black heart is construction 6 . So to make your Pans assasins you need construction 6 but by that time there won't be too many indy provinces left on not too big maps or other very special settings .

So you mean using them against other players ?
This is very nasty i think because the pan should be not easy to kill during an assasination . I didn't play pangenea often can you give the pan a few FoDs as bodyguard and they participate the assasination ?

What happens if you are in enemy lands , no way to retreat and you charm an SC ? Does he then attack the defenders of the province as well or does he die because of nowhere to retreat ?

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:
This is very nasty i think because the pan should be not easy to kill during an assasination . I didn't play pangenea often can you give the pan a few FoDs as bodyguard and they participate the assasination ?

Yes they arent weak and the magic helps alot. Given the right items they Last in the field well which is good considering they are very expensive. Pandemoniacs are capital only but Pans can be made in cheap towers. I love playing Pangaea as sneak armies. Seank them in, take some small province off in the corner, no dominion push to draw attention to your location, crank out sneak units and spread them all over the map. A few spots like that can wreak havoc on some of these "unbeatable strategies".

FoD? bodyguards dont help in assassination but are nice in case you are spotted. Trinkets that summon do assist in assinations such as that skull talisman. Self-fighting items like the stone dove help also.

What happens if you are in enemy lands , no way to retreat and you charm an SC ? Does he then attack the defenders of the province as well or does he die because of nowhere to retreat ?

He attacks the defenders but I think its a seperate battle. I dont remember.

[Boron]

FoD should be fiend of darkness because he is stealthy too and Pan can bloodhunt a bit .

I would love to see your strat once in a mp game because it is really great but i am curious about the time by when you achieve your special strats :
-Pan is a very bad researcher , Charm is Thaum 7 , Black heart is Con 6 , hellbind heart is B5 .
-350 gold for a Pan is very much , 23 1/3 upkeep , for a Pandemoniac 320 gold , 21 1/3 upkeep .

Scales + a SC are so a problem . Your dryads cost only 110 gold + are sacred but they only net you 3 research .
So if you don't want to rely on sages you should take Magic 3 and use dryads as main researchers .
Your Pans are so expensive that you almost should take Growth 3 + Order 3 imo .
Ok you can free points by sloth 3 + misfortune 2 + watchtower .
Then you have 340 points left for pretender + dominion .
Hm would be enough for a decent Ghostking though he is not very thematic .

Would you please post your favourite pretenderdesign for Pangenea fitting your strat ?