Basic tech mod?

[Krsqk]

Is anyone interested in a mod similar to the "grit-tech" thread below, or is everyone content just to change the appropriate settings within the game? I think someone expressed a desire for a little more variety than just that. I don't have a lot of time to devote to modding (I'm getting married in a little under 3 weeks), but I'd be glad to pass on to someone else whatever I can get done before then. So far, I've made the restrictions given for the grit-tech PBW game, but I haven't modified any of the AI to adapt to those changes (especially no racial techs). Maybe those in the PBW game can make some suggestions for modifications/balancing of techs and comps.

[ August 10, 2002, 20:17: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[Suicide Junkie]

I would enjoy contributing to a Basic Tech mod.

Just say when

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[geoschmo]

If I had it to do over again I would probably do the grit tech using the devnull mod. It has a lot of variety in weapons, even some that fit the "grit tech" format.

If you are doing a mod for this, I suggest incorporating some of his ideas. Different kinds of missles would be nice. Some faster speed/lower damage. His pod missles are cool. Take up little space in the ship, and the expense of only being able to fire once per combat round.

Some different particle weapons. They don't even have to have diffeent abilities or damage, just something to give you a different feel, and some variety.

I would even support some low power laser weapons. It is conceivable that those would be possible in the not too distant future. I would like to see them take a lot of room and use lots of supplies. Maybe even limit them to long reload times. Anything to keep it balanced.

Geoschmo

[Puke]

yeah, devnull would be a good base for grit. lots of armor types, lots of missiles, more point defense types.

I will have to restart my devnull test game again so I can see if it is working on the server yet, I think it may have been fixed, but i am seeing some odd problems that might be just with that game.

[Krsqk]

All right, due to overwhelming demand, I'll start. Okay, I've started. How about a little input before I make too many arbitrary opinions?

• AI--What would be the best approach to this, especially since all racial techs are gone? Should there be separate design/construction/research files for each ship, or should all races use the same set?
  
• Intel--Should this be disabled? It is buggy, and I'm not sure if all of the ops fit into the low-tech theme. (Taking over a computer-run ship 15 systems away?)
  
• Cloaking/Stealth armor--Someone had mentioned different levels of cloaking for stealth armor, along with different levels for mines, making some mines detectable. Opinions?
  
• System-wide facilities--Are facs that boost production/research/happiness/etc across an entire system feasible?
  
• Scale/Balance--Would you like to see an all out slug-fest with massive ships, or should components/weapons/supplies be expensive, allowing for fewer ships/smaller fleets/shorter range. Along with this, should base maintenance be lower/higher/unchanged?
  
• Ship size/ship yards--Is it possible to build ships of the sizes currently in SEIV? Should ships even be able to be built in space? I plan on increasing the size of ship SYs anyway to make them only available on the larger ships and bases, or maybe just on bases. Would more in-between sizes be good (i.e., courier/corvette, more fighters, etc, with different max engines/requirements)?[/list]
  I'm sure I'll come up with more, but this will do for now. Looking forward to what comes out!
  
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  "The Unpronounceable" Krsqk
  
  [This message has been edited by Krsqk (edited 17 July 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

Arrgh. stupid browser ate my post.

1) I think that having all the AIs act the same would be very boring...
IMO, it would be best to have each one specialize in something different, such as missiles vs torpedoes vs slug throwers, etc.

2) Disabling all offensive intel would be good. Informational ops only, such as the census reports should be allowed.
Leave technology theft out of the list, though, since it will doubtlessly be abused.

3) Put in many levels of stealth. 10 levels would be good, for then you have to start wondering when to quit the cold-war escalation and actually research weapons & armor
Anybody who researches all 10 techs in stealth and sensors would be whooped by the unstealthy army of mass destruction some other player has equipped with WMGs and Armor 15s.

4) Yes. I could see the system-wide bonus coming from a dedicated lab, full of hardworking planners. They would design the most efficient mining tunnels for the specific terrain of each world, breed different farm plants and animals for each world, etc.
The System-wide Lab would be dedicated to that one system, and concentrate on the sun & orbital effects.
Single-planet Labs would work on the gravity, surface structure/terrain, ambient temperature effects.

5&6) I really like the propulsion system I designed for P&N v2.0 (and the AIs do decently in it too!)
By making the propulsion requirements based on mass, it pushes the optimum shp size down to LC & smaller.
Big ships can still be useful, and effective, but they are slow and expensive, so it is advisable to have many fast, expendable LCs and FGs to defend it.

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[geoschmo]

I wouldn't mess with intel. I think governments in the future will definetly deal in espionage and sabotage.

If your concern is the bug, it will be fixed at some point, and can be disabled in the mean time. There is no nedd to remove it in a mod.

Geo

[Krsqk]

Well, how 'bout some compromise?

1) I agree about the boring AI comment. I have little enough successful experience at modding the AI to qualify me as unqualified. Any help? I can slice out stuff like techs that aren't included, but I haven't gotten the hang of the design/construction files yet.

2) Errg, intel. I strongly feel that PPP (and maybe? CI?) should be removed. Maybe just made a whole lot more expensive. I mean, it would take an awful lot of effort to get part of a country/empire to just up and switch sides. However, I see anarchy Groups as a very viable alternative; you just won't directly reap the benefits of a riot/rebellion. Tech theft will probably go, too, or at least go up in cost. Having looked through the IntelProjects file just now, those are the only things I feel strongly about. I'll probably try to include Lucas' AI Intel mod to keep them from running Ship Blueprints twelve times a turn.

3) Oh, so you want the infinite tech tree with finite tech areas? What a pity the game limits us to Super Extended Reinforced Ablative Stealth PLasteel Reactive Armor XX. I think I'd put different levels on mines, then, too, not just increased sizes as they go up. The question to be answered, then, is,--well, it's at the end of this lengthy post.

4) System-wide production is in, then. Research and Intel, too, then--some sort of coordination center. Hey, let's throw in happiness, too, and just say the media is in some sort of mass conspiracy or something.

5&6) Yes, I'd planned on implementing the propulsion system from P&N v2. I do want to keep larger sizes an integral part (keeps maintenance nice and high up there), and I'll probably go ahead and add in some new sizes for good measure.

Two questions, then. First, propulsion. Should I rework the current sets of engines? I mean, ion propulsion isn't quite around the corner. I was thinking of having two routes to go: A) a solid-/liquid-fuel based system which uses medium or high supplies with higher speed, less supply storage, cheaper; and B) a nuclear system with low supply usage, high cost, high storage, and low/medium speed. (A) would give better interception/combat abilities, but ship-sized afterburner type components would keep (B) a viable alternative for combat, especially with the supply storage-to-use ratio.

Second question: should this mod lean toward a massive tech tree, with 10 or 15 options for each area (e.g., Armor XV, Stealth Armor X, High Yield Chemical Warhead XVIII, etc.)? Or, alternatively, should it be more of a Cold War scenario, in which defense > offense because of a greater number of techs? Not to an unbalancing extent, but I think it should be especially difficult to destroy massive ships, and especially planets. They're, well, big.

That's enough rambling for one post. I'll get crackin' on it.

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"The Unpronounceable" Krsqk

[Phoenix-D]

"I mean, ion propulsion isn't quite around the corner."

One of our space probes is powered by an ion drive. It's not what some things make it out to be, though.. from what I understand it's slow to accelerate but good for long hauls.

Phoenix-D

[Gimboid]

quote:

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Originally posted by Krsqk:


Second question: should this mod lean toward a massive tech tree, with 10 or 15 options for each area (e.g., Armor XV, Stealth Armor X, High Yield Chemical Warhead XVIII, etc.)? Or, alternatively, should it be more of a Cold War scenario, in which defense > offense because of a greater number of techs?

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With such a massive tech tree, basically you are going to have to pick what tech areas you want to be good at.
So whilst your enemy may have gone the "Super Extended Reinforced Ablative Stealth PLasteel Reactive Armor XX" route, you could have gone down the 'Enhanced Coherent Tectonic Meson Induced Ion Collider Beam VII' route. So your offense is somewhat offset (or defeated) by his defense.

Makes research as much a strategy as ship design is, which tech areas do u want? or do u want to be a jack of all trades and relatively weak compared to the specialists???

So in answer to your question, i say go for the large tech tree, making defensive and offensive techs roughtly equal in the extent they can be researched (not neccisarily in relative strengths) such as capping all research levels at level XXV or something.