Speeding Up Tien Chi Spring and Autumn ?!

[Arralen]

I'm pondering for ages now how to make S&A start faster, and today it struck me like a carrier

Most nations have a spy/scout from start, but S&A doesn't. Being a slow starter, it has to look out for weak indies. That means either wasting a turn on buying a scout, or wsting more turns by attacking into the wrong direction on the 3rd or 4th turn..

Most nations start with their standard, if not their best infantry. S&A starts with a bunch of pike footmen without any armor to speak of. Ressource are most likely low, so buying a decent sized squad of heavy inf needs 5 turns or more...

Than there's no cheap non-magic commander available, so massing medium inf and archers isn't possible, too.

Sadly, all those things cannot be corrected AFAIK, as it would mean modding things special to the theme, and you can't do that, do you?

[Saber Cherry]

AFAIK, themes still cannot be modded, which is why I didn't add a "Third Tier" to BF Ulm, capable of summoning Vampire Counts. You can still "scout" by attacking with a commander set to retreat, but...

[Scott Hebert]

Cherry, couldn't you mod BF Ulm's units so that the First Tier/Second Tier/Fortuneteller turn into First Tier (spy), Second Tier (bad event-avoider)/Third Tier (Count Summoner)?

As for TC S&A... reduce the cost of their mages to a reasonable level, and they'd do better.

[Arralen]

Scott Hebert said:
As for TC S&A... reduce the cost of their mages to a reasonable level, and they'd do better.

Their mages are very reasonable priced, they're among the most versatile mages in the game.

And price isn't an issue - you can only buy 1/turn anyway at start.

The problem is - you would need a scout and a 2nd "normal" commander as well, which costs you 2 turns of buying mages. And you need some time for the mages to get really useful (research, gems).

By that time, you have build some HI as well. Sadly, you're 4 turns behind at that point.


But the idea about switching to troops (numbers) could work, I'll have to test that ...

[Scott Hebert]

Actually, no, they're not.

The Master of the 5 Elements should cost 140g, not 190g. The Celestial Master, in S&A, is rather reasonably priced, but could do with a cost reduction.

[FrankTrollman]

According to the "official formula", Tien Chi spellchuckers are indeed "overpriced". In actual practice, however, the fact that Tien Chi can have just two spellcasters wander around and find all the magic sites is absolutely golden, and worth every penny.

Even the national summonings are just about worth the gems cost - it's just the hero time that is unacceptable. Celestial Demons should really be summoned in groups of two or three. Not four, because that is an inauspicious number in Tien Chi.

The thing that ultimately bites Tien Chi is their mandatory Turmoil - that severely doesn't synergize well with a group that needs to buy an expensive utility mage every turn. That and the opening army isn't very good and you can't buy up a decent infusion for it and still afford the mandatory mages.

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Tien Chi could be well helped by:

* Getting a decent starting army. A pile of the the armored glavers and a pile of the Composite Bowmen.

* Getting a decent starting general! The Noble is an expensive boondoggle, they need something, anything that can lead troops at a reasonable cost. It should probably be able to lead 10 Undead and 10 Magic troops just because of how Spring and Autumn is.

* A bonus chance for a good luck event in the capitol. Luck economies don't even pretend to have a reasonable income until they get a lot of provinces under their belt.

* Having something for the Master of Five Elements to do besides find magic sites and lead troops. Perhaps an Earth/Nature combo spell. Or just plain starting them out with Clay Soldiers.

-Frank