OT: New Virus? - Page 5

Thermodyne · #41 August 19th, 2005, 09:13 PM

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parabolize said:

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Thermodyne said:

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parabolize said:

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Imperator Fyron said:
parabolize said:
You can do a custom install with Ubuntu as well but unless you want to learn a lot from the get-go I would do the default install and install/use xfce4 desktop environment with older hardware.

I didn't see any options for a package-level setup feature when I was installing Ubuntu. But yeah, you do have to learn/know a lot to make much use of the individual package selection level.

When it asks you to hit enter type server first then hit enter (it only installs the base meta package that way).

It's not a desk top OS. It was built to run in the data center. It's more secure, and more reliable under heavy loads/long up times. But not as user friendly. FreeBSD is to desktop Nix as Windows Server 03 is to XP.

FreeBSD can be a desktop OS (I am running it on one of my computers). FreeBSD has only one down fall as a desktop OS it runs even less games then Linux (though there is linux emulation).

And many peeps run Windows server on their personal systems. You can run anything you want. But when it comes to making money, it has to be something Sue and Sam user know how to use or can be trained to run without out very much trouble.

Your not going to see freeBSD on the desktop in the business world. It's just not enterprize friendly enough to have as a main line desktop system.

Jack Simth · #42 August 19th, 2005, 09:13 PM

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parabolize said:Many Debian based distros have easy installers (Ubuntu, Mepis, knoppix...)

I can't in good conscience call knoppix an install. I'm sorry, I just can't. I burned a knoppix disc - it "installs" by booting from the CD. When I'm done working with Linux for the day, I remove the CD from the drive, and reboot. About the only changes made to my machine are the ones I specifically told it to make. Knoppix runs from the CD; it doesn't really install to your machine. Quite the useful tool for your toolbox - almost no virus can touch a CD (espcecially if it isn't in a CD burner drive....) very little can attack linux anyway, and a virus that is on your windows system is unlikely to be able to deal with a linux boot. Very useful for cleaning up a system (provided, of course, that knoppix can write to it's hard drive format)

Fyron · #43 August 19th, 2005, 09:26 PM

Knoppix is most certainly capable of being installed as a normal installation, not needing the live CD anymore. Same with Mepis.

parabolize · #44 August 19th, 2005, 11:40 PM

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Thermodyne said:
To put this in perspective, windows get attacked more often because it is targeted more often. If you are a criminal trying to exploit systems, are you going after 2% or 3% of the systems out there? Or are you going to expend your time and effort on something that will attack 90% of the systems out there?

If you are truly good at administering Windows, you have a very small chance of being exploited. If you can load it run dcpromo and join a system, that does not make you truly good. Most users can barely load it, so they get hit.

I have six clients that run Redhat, and keeping them patched is more of a problem than the all of the windows system I work on. And for those of you who don�t already know, Redhat is not free to the business community, but is one of the few Nix distros that is insurable. FreeBSD is free and insurable, so is usually what a Nix network runs on.

Everyone has holes in their software. BIND has holes, Cisco has holes, Nix has holes. They just don�t make the news for the general public. One of the big problems right now is holes in apps. Windows apps can be patched at the same time as the OS. Third party apps usually need to be patched on a per-system basis, which eats up man hours. MS systems can also have driver updates installed along with patches, this make windows more or less three times as easy to manage as the others. One WSUS server to manage and with it you roll out service packs, hot fixes, security patches, application updates and patches, and driver updates. And you only have one system going to the web to get same, not 10�s or 100�s of systems eating up bandwidth. On the client side you control everything from ADDS with GP, this is where no one else can touch MS. But the vast majority of windows networks don�t even use GP, they just don�t know how. And they are the ones who get exploited! I should mention that many of the F5�s who make the news after being exploited are still running NT. NT is not a safe OS in today�s climate. It has nowhere near the security features needed to be called secure today. But the bean counters always hit IT first, because it does not generate black ink on the ledger. So NT has never been replaced.

Your having trouble running yum auto update on 6 computers?

Jack Simth · #45 August 20th, 2005, 12:51 AM

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Imperator Fyron said:
Knoppix is most certainly capable of being installed as a normal installation, not needing the live CD anymore. Same with Mepis.

Sure you can, but that's rather far from the intent of the distributions - check it's website; from the main page, under "What is Knoppix":

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KNOPPIX is a bootable Live system on CD or DVD, consisting of a representative collection of GNU/Linux software, automatic hardware detection, and support for many graphics cards, sound cards, SCSI and USB devices and other peripherals. KNOPPIX can be used as a productive Linux system for the desktop, educational CD, rescue system, or adapted and used as a platform for commercial software product demos. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk. Due to on-the-fly decompression, the CD can have up to 2 GB of executable software installed on it (over 8GB on the DVD "Maxi" edition).

The primary thing that differentiates Knoppix from other flavors of Linux is that it is intended for a boot disk. Most other flavors of Linux (not all) are intended to be permanently installed on the main hard disk of a computer.

parabolize · #46 August 20th, 2005, 01:01 AM

There is nothing wrong with using KNOPPIX on a hard drive. All the main distros have a live cd or dvd. Some distros (like KNOPPIX) use the live cd as a install cd.

Thermodyne · #47 August 20th, 2005, 01:11 AM

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parabolize said:

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Thermodyne said:
To put this in perspective, windows get attacked more often because it is targeted more often. If you are a criminal trying to exploit systems, are you going after 2% or 3% of the systems out there? Or are you going to expend your time and effort on something that will attack 90% of the systems out there?

If you are truly good at administering Windows, you have a very small chance of being exploited. If you can load it run dcpromo and join a system, that does not make you truly good. Most users can barely load it, so they get hit.

I have six clients that run Redhat, and keeping them patched is more of a problem than the all of the windows system I work on. And for those of you who don�t already know, Redhat is not free to the business community, but is one of the few Nix distros that is insurable. FreeBSD is free and insurable, so is usually what a Nix network runs on.

Everyone has holes in their software. BIND has holes, Cisco has holes, Nix has holes. They just don�t make the news for the general public. One of the big problems right now is holes in apps. Windows apps can be patched at the same time as the OS. Third party apps usually need to be patched on a per-system basis, which eats up man hours. MS systems can also have driver updates installed along with patches, this make windows more or less three times as easy to manage as the others. One WSUS server to manage and with it you roll out service packs, hot fixes, security patches, application updates and patches, and driver updates. And you only have one system going to the web to get same, not 10�s or 100�s of systems eating up bandwidth. On the client side you control everything from ADDS with GP, this is where no one else can touch MS. But the vast majority of windows networks don�t even use GP, they just don�t know how. And they are the ones who get exploited! I should mention that many of the F5�s who make the news after being exploited are still running NT. NT is not a safe OS in today�s climate. It has nowhere near the security features needed to be called secure today. But the bean counters always hit IT first, because it does not generate black ink on the ledger. So NT has never been replaced.

Your having trouble running yum auto update on 6 computers?

LOL....Try 100 some...We won't take a client with less than 10 systems, no money in it. Only reason we have any nix clients is that we hope to move them to SBS and XP within a year. Usually we have given them a bid for SBS and XP with replacement of any systems more than three years old and a new server. This often forces them to push it into the next year. If they don't switch, we don't re-bid the contract. I do have one nix shop that is owned by a windows client that I would hate to loose. They run nix and apple, and it is sometimes a real PITA. I also have one accounting firm that is still on DOS, every time I need to replace a system it has become a scavenger hunt. The owner has been going to retire and close up next year, for three years now! I also have a string of auto parts stores that just moved to 98 last year. There is only one vender still writing POS software for that industry and they just moved their app to 98. They don't expect to move up to XP until 2008. They only sell it preinstalled on the hardware and the networking is based on null modems. I can't wait for that contract to run out

I have a day job, and my partner and the four techs don't really do much with nix. I have had many a weekend or evning ruined by nix

Most of the Nix shops went with it to save money, and then found that they couldn't afford to support it. Or that they couldn't get boxed nix apps that will do what they need to do. They seldom have any licenses and seldom know that they needed any. Most of them got hung up on a low bid that convinced them that they could keep older systems in service by loading nix on them. That usually moves them from an unreliable windows 98 environment into an unreliable nix environment. Old system don't care what's running on them, they die just the same. Lots of sleazy contractors pushing bootleg Nix to small shops these days.

parabolize · #48 August 20th, 2005, 01:23 AM

If your looking for boxed programs do not use linux. Its that simple. Its called GNU/Linux for a reason.

Fyron · #49 August 20th, 2005, 04:49 AM

Jack Simth said:Sure you can, but that's rather far from the intent of the distributions - check it's website; from the main page, under "What is Knoppix":

I am well aware of what Knoppix is. Nothing wrong with installing it. It is a fully functional distribution. Para's post summed it up well...

Xrati · #50 August 20th, 2005, 12:17 PM

I guess in reading all the posts there is no "Linux for Dummies" and you will just have to know more about your computer then "Plug n Play". It sounds as though the Knoppix boot version might be a good place to start because if you were to have problems at least you could re-boot and come here for some help (AND by the way, thanks for all the help! You guys have been great).

Is Knoppix purchased as a boot disk or do you need to make the disk? I would like to get into this but all the different views expressed here tell me it's more of a personel choice as to which prog to use. I would like something to START on and work up into over time and gain experience with? AND don't tell me to "Use the force young Jedi" cause it might send me off to the dark side!!!