Dud units / monsters / summons - Page 8

SelfishGene · #71 April 24th, 2007, 03:52 PM

There's that blitz map thing again!

If playing with the maps that the game comes with is to be catagorized in some kind of arbitrary (and slightly demeaning) manner i have to wonder who is playing the game that they want to play, and who is playing the game that everyone else is playing.

I really don't have a problem with you Gandalf, or your giant bizarro world maps. But please don't project these preferences unto the entire community as if they were anything more than an individual choice reflecting a very small part of the community.

Foodstamp · #72 April 24th, 2007, 03:57 PM

The Siren is a dud unit because the land form has little specks of black near the edges of the unit graphic. This needs to be addressed and fixed asap!

Dedas · #73 April 24th, 2007, 04:14 PM

I think Foodstamp summarizes my feelings for this "discussion" quite well.

So please, everyone - just chill. If anyone wants more game balance you are free to mod the game as you wish and you know it.

Gandalf Parker · #74 April 24th, 2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

SelfishGene said:
There's that blitz map thing again!

If playing with the maps that the game comes with is to be catagorized in some kind of arbitrary (and slightly demeaning) manner i have to wonder who is playing the game that they want to play, and who is playing the game that everyone else is playing.

I really don't have a problem with you Gandalf, or your giant bizarro world maps. But please don't project these preferences unto the entire community as if they were anything more than an individual choice reflecting a very small part of the community.

Oh I know that Im one extreme. But by blitz map Im talking about games with something like 10 provinces per player and 3-5 people in the game. Obviously thats meant to be a fast game and highly effects everything from what does or doesnt work as strategy, to what does or doesnt make efficent use of gold/resources in buying units, etc etc. If thats what people mostly play then they should mention that when they talking "balance". In a game where the range of map size is 100-1500 then I dont think 100 needs to define the game. (of course neither should 1500)

Teraswaerto · #75 April 24th, 2007, 04:44 PM

I think you should look at how many provinces Orania or Glory of the Gods (multiplayer) has and use that as maximum baseline. 1500 is not something that is used at all as far as I know. Faerun large has 424 and it is really huge for multiplayer, and even there Helheim is killer and Marverni get's killed.

Gandalf Parker · #76 April 24th, 2007, 04:58 PM

424 divided by 21 players is 20 provinces. The game has 3 ratings of small, medium, and large. It rates that as a "large" map. Not "really huge" for multiplayer.

Usually 1000 is the game where exploration and finding a path to another nation makes it a different style game. It still amounts to about 10 provinces to the next nation but its 10 in a straight line.

quantum_mechani · #77 April 24th, 2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Dedas said:
So please, everyone - just chill. If anyone wants more game balance you are free to mod the game as you wish and you know it.

That is certainly true... what I had an objection to was just the implication that A. randomness and balance where somehow opposed to each other and B. that trying to even the cost vs usefulness of options can be compared with making it 'chesslike'.

That scale somehow magically balances also seems a bit of a fallacy. 250 infantry beat 100 light cavalry just the same as 25 infantry beat 10 light cavalry. The only major impact of really large maps balance wise is that eventually your options plateau as you run out of research to do. This situation makes balance even more necessary as you have one fewer way to 'niche' options.

What I really have hard time understanding is the outlook that balance somehow restricts options. If someone does not particularly care if one option is much weaker or stronger than another one, or the specifics of stats/costs, then changing them should have no impact whatsoever on how they can play the game.

Teraswaerto · #78 April 24th, 2007, 05:08 PM

Are there MP games played on 1000+ province maps? Where could I find one?

HoneyBadger · #79 April 24th, 2007, 05:19 PM

Sorry, Gandalf, but I disagree with what you're saying, pretty much entirely.

Variety is a wonderful thing, and it should be pretty obvious to any regular on these boards that I'm all for a huge diversity and variety in my choices, as to how I want to play any given game.
Bad units for the sake of variety and "role-playing" is fun, hoburgs are in the game for a reason, and I'm all for that too, but what we're discussing here is the complete mirror opposite, "variety for the sake of bad units".

Some units currently in the game are flawed-some deeply-and should be fixed, like a broken leg should be fixed. That's the process that leads to a well-balanced game. It takes time, and a surgeon's willingness to cut, but you potentially end up with a clean, stronger heal.

That doesn't mean you cut off the leg or get rid of the unit, it just means you do what's necessary to fix problems in such a way that they improve the health of the body itself-in this case, the body of the game.

Gandalf Parker · #80 April 24th, 2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Teraswaerto said:
Are there MP games played on 1000+ province maps? Where could I find one?

They take quite awhile. Ive run 5. One is still running.
Ive had people grab some of my large maps to run games on.

I will eventually start another one but at the moment Im trying to iron out how to do a mega game (1500 provinces and all 76 nations)