I've been lurking around here for a while, but had never yet actually downloaded a mod nation (even though several sounded quite intresting from reading about them) since, well, basically I lost intrest in SP quite some time ago. With this latest post however I decided to have a look at the new version and give it a quick whirl so I could give some feedback.
First of all: the flavor, the unit types, the graphics, everything
fits. I just really dig the nation. Just looking at things makes me want to play them. (In MP mind you
) Also all the sprites are really nice. (From reading stuff here it seems people have come to expect this from you, but it's still worth mentioning. )
The regular untits are all very nice, and they all seem to have their uses. In a (very) quick test game - basically just early expansion and an early attack on the AI without mage support to gauge the power of the military - Only 15 turns or a little more - I recruited and used most of them and was happy with their performance. I didn't use windriders nor orphans yet, but I can definitely see me recruiting them for their own purposes. It's also a really fun idea to make the sacred unit a low-morale version of the regular troops. A few remarks:
* The hoplite line of infantry seems a little slow. If regular Ulmish infantry with its heavy armor and a tower shield moves 7 it would seem that the hoplites with their relatively light armor should move at least 8 or 9, even carrying around that beast of a shield they've got. I don't know if you're conciously trying to give them a 'slowly but inexorably marching towards the enemy' feel, or if they just happened to turn out that way?
* While in the long run the sworn companions aren't quite as survivable as elite knights (they have only half the armor and the same defence) they are also relatively easily massable thanks to their low resource cost. I'm curious what effect a big unit of fear causing heavy-damage cavalry will accomplish on the battlefield. I have a hunch they'll be fine, but it bears watching by someone who actually makes it into mid game.
* Despite what someone said earlier in this thread, the PD doesn't seem all that strong to me. (I don't know if you changed it?) In fact, I would rate it at slightly below average, with the helgrots rushing ahead and getting killed before the hoplites can join the action.
* At 80 gold the Haimgrots make decent bloodhunters, say Marignon level. Not nearly Mictlan level obviously, but then they shouldn't be that good either. They do have one problem though. Roughly half of the Misborns you will be recruiting anyway also have 1B, and while they're a bit more expensive at 110g, they're also sacred, so they cost less upkeep than Haimgrots, which is really the deciding factor to set up a stable long-term blood economy. As things stand now I see no reason to recruit Haimgrots. I'm not sure what would solve this problem. Making the Haimgrots holy would obviously work, but this doesn't seem quite thematic to me. It would also make them slightly better bloodhunters than Lanka, only behind Mictlan in efficiëncy. While I don't think this would overpower Arga Dis as a nation I don't know if this is the flavor you want to give them. You might also give them 2B for the same price (Marignons hunters are 1F1B for 80g), but I didn't delve deeply enough into Blood hunting Mechanics to figure out if that would make them better bloodhunters than the Misborns. Maybe ask Baalz, he should know.
(And they have to be better for people to recruit them, at equal bloodhunting value the Misborns will be recruited due to their flexibility. ) Third option would be to tweak the Misborns somehow to make them a worse choise as bloodhunters. (but then that would make the misborns a far less useful unit)
* I don't know how the misborns used to be in previous versions, but I really like how they are now. They're quite efficiënt little researchers. 7 out of 16(discounting the two 10% randoms) make efficiënt blood hunters, and 5/16 (DD, FF, EE, and EF) make useful battlemages. With stealth as a little bonus feature. (it will probably also mean you'll miss half your battlemages at a crucial battle because you forgot to shift+click to move them but anyways.
) I love them. Maybe you could hike the price up to 120 though? They're more versatile than, say, C'tis shamans, and have 2 extra randoms, but they do lack the communion ability. They do have two issues though, in the context of their nation. First, as I mentioned above, their blood-hunting ability makes your poor Haimgrots superfluous. Second, these guys will be your main battlemages (since the Gilgans are mainly there for blood rituals and thuggery) We're talking Ulmish levels of magic here, a bit more versatile (they have death) but not more powerful. (no magma eruptions without earth boots or lucky randoms for example)
* The Gilgans have truly Abysmal MR. Similar level big badasses such as basalt kings or Agarthan oracles (let alone Niefel Jarls) have 18 or at least 17 MR, even if you drop a level lower in big-badassedness Jotun Skrattis still have 17. Given their price I don't see how you can justify kitting them out for combat and sending them out into the fray with a base MR of only 14. This pritty much eliminates their use as a SC. On the other hand, given their ability to cast some of the top-end blood rituals (with appropiate boosters), and their ability as a SC (If the MR gets boosted) - with access to blood vengeance, and ,depending on randoms, ironskin and/or fire shields - they might use a sligh price hike, into the early 400's. (Gut feeling here, no advanced math was harmed in the making of this product ermm, asessment. If you want I could look at this more thoroughly when I'm more awake)
* General powerlevelwise - keep in mind this is very, very theoretical, from just looking at their units and 15+ turns of play, as I mentioned - they seem somewhat below average, with a strong military, but no powerful sacreds (and no tramplers either) so no early rushers. (And they do seem particularly vulnerable to trampler rushes.) A good blood capability, and a recruitable SC chassis (if the MR gets boosted, else they don't really have this either) but poor battlemagic. I have the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that you prefer your nations to be slightly below average rather than slightly above average, so all in all this seems quite fine.
* I've been thinking a bit on ways to solve the Misbred/Haimgrot problem, and came up with 3 possible solutions to make both units desirable. Two out of those will make your nation a bit more powerful, but - I believe - not too powerful. Combining parts of the different solutions would also work.
First option, quick and dirty: strip the misbreds from blood magic. This would obviously install the Haimgrots as your bloodhunters, and leave your misbreds as researchers and battlemages. (5/9 misbreds will have one of the abovementioned 'battlemagic' path combinations) Main problem with this solution: thematically it seems to me the misbreds should have access to blood.
Second option: make the Haimgrots cheaper/more efficiënt. The Vaetti Hag for example costs only 55g for 1? so there is room for improvement, depending on how efficiënt a blood nationd you want them to be. Perhaps make them holy as mentioned above if you think it fits thematically, or give them 2B.
Third option: Hike up the misbreds price and power a little bit. Maybe into the 150 range? This would indeed make them potentially a bit better battlemages, but I do feel there is a bit of room for it. After all these guys
are your main battlemages. You could also combine the second and third option, making the Haimgrot a bit cheaper, the misbreds a bit more expensive. Depending on where you want to see the strength of the nation in the different areas. Personally I dig the idea of keeping the battlemagic (and thus the misbreds) as it is now, and making the Haimgrot a really efficiënt bloodhunter, rivalling Lanka, but that's pure personal taste.
I hope the last part was coherent enough to be of use, I'm getting really tired and should have been in bed some time ago.
Anyways, that's it for now. This turned out to be a very long post, for what is basically a very nice nation mod. (it's the first I see, so I can only compare it to vanilla dominions, but that doesn't change the fact it's very nice. ) Since there's been some posts around here and there asking people to give feedback I thought I'd be as extensive as possible this one time I actually get around to checking one out. You should obviously use what you think useful and disregard everything else.
Re: Arga Dis, Blood and Bronze
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