Some notes on MA Mictlan update

Kristoffer O · #1 July 28th, 2007, 02:07 PM

Since I posted this in my current MP thread, I thought that others might be interested as well.

These are changes to MA MIctlan:

Heroes: two shape shifting coatls, one with 3N3S3P2F and one 3N3S3P2A. Unlikely to appear, since my scales are unlucky.

Sky Priest: 2A2P flying, 160g, home only.
Mictlan priest: FWNS random -> FAWNS random

Jade Serpent: Sacred summon. 2W, Conj 4, 5 gems, about as powerful a sea serpent, but no fear, can enter water, sacred.

Eagle Warriors: Something will happen to eagle warriors. Either loose home only, or switch home only with jaguar warriors. Compensates MA a bit for not having easy access to sacred demon fliers. A bit worried that it is too powerful though. They are pretty offensive with heavy blesses.

Moon warrior: Nonsacred heavy (by mictlan standards) elite infantry. Scale hauberk, 2h obsidian sword, 50 darkvision, 12 MR. No ranged weapon. Recruitable anywhere.

I'm thinking about possible changes on the Coatl, but nothing so far. I have an idea of separating the coatl of Mictlan from the c'tissian one.

Velusion · #2 July 28th, 2007, 02:11 PM

Sounds like some good updates.

And don't worry too much about the unfairness of your MP game. Once the patch comes out it's the entire group or the host that gets to decide if you get patched.

I think most players know that MA Mictlan deserves a boost and be happy - and if anyone really objects you don't have to patch the game...

Tuidjy · #3 July 28th, 2007, 02:39 PM

I think that no Mictlan should have both jaguar and eagle warriors built
everywhere. A horde of one is bad enough. Of horde of both is going to
be Hell to stop. It is extremely hard to balance sacred units... I do not
envy you the task.

llamabeast · #4 July 28th, 2007, 02:41 PM

Well the horde of both would be no bigger than the horde of one, since you wouldn't be able to produce any more sacred units total.

Meglobob · #5 July 28th, 2007, 03:25 PM

This is great, I love nations being added to rather than just nerfed and this makes MA Mictlan different from its EA/LA relations.

Everything you suggest is great but the following 2 changes go along way to turning MA Mictlan into abit of a superpower:-

Quote:

Kristoffer O said:
Sky Priest: 2A2P flying, 160g, home only.
Mictlan priest: FWNS random -> FAWNS random

Eagle Warriors: Something will happen to eagle warriors. Either loose home only, or switch home only with jaguar warriors. Compensates MA a bit for not having easy access to sacred demon fliers. A bit worried that it is too powerful though. They are pretty offensive with heavy blesses.

Having both Jaguar warriors and eagle warriors recruitable everywhere would be far too powerful. But switching them around just in MA would be great, so Jaguars are capital only and Eagle warriors are recruitable from every castle.

EA/LA it stays as is ie...Jaguars every castle, eagle warriors capital only. Thematically it is easily justifiable in that the Lawgiver has raised the eagle warriors up and the jaguars are out of favour.

The A2, P2 flying mage is also a rather powerful edition, it is perfect for blessing your troops and it can easily be made into a powerful raiding thug. It also gives MA Mictlan access to spells like fog warriors, just put A4 on your pretender to build bag of wings/winged helmet.

This means in practice you are going to meeting Eagle warriors/Jaguars with 2 lvl 9 blesses backed up with Fog warriors. Too powerful? Probably, especially as it opens up Arrow Fend too, which overcomes Mictlans vulnerability to missile fire.

I suggest A1 with perhaps a 20% chance of a additional air. A2 is too powerful.

Would'nt the fire on the priest open up flaming arrows/wind guide combo?

I personally like powerful nations but I am just pointing those problems out so you can avoid threads like, 'Isn't MA Mictlan far too powerful' threads.

llamabeast · #6 July 28th, 2007, 04:19 PM

Casting fog warriors witrh A2 mages is very very hard work, it's not going to be happening very often unless it's the focus of a strategy, and even then not into mid game.

To my mind the presence of A2 mages is unlikely to boost MA Mictlan compared to the other ages as much as losing blood from all of the mages disadvantages them. They are still a nation of shoddy troops with no particular strengths except for their cheap sacreds.

MaxWilson · #7 July 28th, 2007, 05:40 PM

If you switch the cap-only restriction on the jaguar/eagle warriors, don't forget to switch PD too.

About Fog Warriors: one big difference between A1.2 and A2 is that A2 can cast site-searching spells, so you'll have a much larger gem income. Once you empower somebody up to A4 (105 air gems?), or if you have a pretender that starts at A4 or higher, you can forge a Bag of Winds and a Staff of Storms, then <Summon Air Power, Fog Warriors> by burning an extra air gem (it's A5 but only costs 300 fatigue). Seems feasible to me, and you get the fringe benefit of hampering missile fire at your jaguar (/eagle) warriors, and letting any other A2 priests boost to A3 so they can Thunderstrike and/or Orb Lightning.

That said, I agree with Megalobob that balance by *adding* things is much more fun than balance by nerfing, and I like the pending changes to MA Mictlan.

Edit: One more thing. About the "no particular strengths except for their cheap sacreds." What if the Mictlan Couatl were S3A3H2 or something? That gives them a good battlemage with some versatility and a ton of mobility, to make up for the lack of blood summons. It would play very differently from EA/LA Mictlan, but that's kind of the point.

-Max

Shovah32 · #8 July 28th, 2007, 05:43 PM

Eagle warrior PD would be awesome although the lack of scriptable PD could make them slightly suicidal.

MaxWilson · #9 July 28th, 2007, 07:58 PM

Hey, PD's the best place for suicidal warriors. IIRC, they can't fly unless they're blessed so they won't die without doing some damage.

-Max

jutetrea · #10 July 29th, 2007, 12:24 AM

I'm playing an MA Mictlan game now, turn 37ish.

A2 would help a lot, but I don't think overly empowering. Possibly an A1N1 w/50% 1A chance, just need that 1 A2 for site searching and boots/displace early. Fog warriors is tough to cast consistently for most nations, adding it as a potential for late mid/late game shouldn't be a dealbreaker if the player wants to invest that way.

Making eagle's non cap would be great, although making jags cap only would suck. As mentioned earlier, you're still limited by your Dom count, so the "hordes" would be the same size, it would just open more strategic possibilities.

Adding heroes is always a great thing.

I'm pretty unimpressed with the nation so far, very linear, much more restricted in options than any other nation I've played. So far, just much less fun than any other nation i've played. Any "addition" changes are great IMO.