OT Which would you Choose

[dogscoff]

Randallw said:
I tried a culture book a few months ago. It seemed to be a popular series so I gave it a look. Of course from the start I despised the Culture and agreed with the changeling guy. The Culture is just lackies of AI's. The book is currently half read and lying under my bed. I have no plans to read further.

Yeah, Horza bora Gobochul is one of my favourite characters as well. How far did you get? Did you get to the tunnels?

You need to read some of the other books to get a broader view of the Culture. My favourites are probably Excession (I love all the Mind-talk in there, I'd happily move to the Cultureverse for nothing more than a chance to chat with a Mind) and Use of Weapons, which is just so dark it's, well, completely frkn opaque.

[Tim_Ward]

From the poll options, SG1. Easily the highest chance of survival. Second choice would be Babylon 5, I'd never go anywhere near any space borne construction run & maintained by star fleet. I am unfamilar with the fire fly universe.

[JAFisher44]

Well, I voted the Enterprise (TMP Era) but I would prefer to live in the Federation in my head. Not the one plagued by bad writers.

[Hugh Manatee]

Given the options I'd take serenity(dangerous yes, but damn what a ride, and yeah, kayle=yum), then DS9(aside from the occasional crossfire a trader here could make a ton of cash and be up front for a lot of history), then the enterprise(preferably D, that thing was a luxury liner), but if I had more to pick from, I'd take post peace keeper war Moya, or Lexx after it eats earth(or in that proffesor dudes spaceship full of naughty school girls....).

Also might like to take a spin on the Heart of Gold, the Bebop or Outlaw Star.

[Renegade 13]

From the options, I chose SG-1. You guys all mention Kaylee from the Firefly universe being a plus, but I see Carter from SG-1 being quite the bonus as well!

I forget the name of the universe, but I think it's one Narf mentioned; the David Weber universe with the world / moon sized ships, genocidal Achultaani coming to wipe the galaxy of all life...yeah that universe sounds like fun to me

[vanbeke]

The article on Star Trak was interesting, although it did miss a few random episodes that did tend to indicate some beliefs - "Bread and Circuses" mentioned the "Son" worshippers, for example, and apparently Uhuru was a believer. And despite Piccard's statement regarding the Federation not having money, there were too many "Free Trader" types roaming the outskirts that were making a living selling things. Couldn't all be barter, could they?

I voted for DS9 as it was more open to outside influence - more societies were represented than on any of the other shows - unless you count the society of the week on any of the other ST series.

While I'm a fan of Firefly, it is a very small universe, although the terraforming that went into making so many habitable worlds around one sun leaves a lot of possibility for xenoarcheology. There is also no explanation as to how people got there, and I would think there has to be some form of interstellar drive available.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

@Renegade: 5th Imperium, yep.

[Randallw]

dogscoff said:

Yeah, Horza bora Gobochul is one of my favourite characters as well. How far did you get? Did you get to the tunnels?

You need to read some of the other books to get a broader view of the Culture. My favourites are probably Excession (I love all the Mind-talk in there, I'd happily move to the Cultureverse for nothing more than a chance to chat with a Mind) and Use of Weapons, which is just so dark it's, well, completely frkn opaque.

I recall they had just left the ringworld that was blown up and Horza killed the captain and replaced him. The culture agent told the crew who he was. It had promise. I liked the ringworld, and the spaceship combat stuff, but I can't stand the stance it takes. I wanted the Religious aliens to win. Normally I would never support aliens over humans but the humans in the book aren't human, they're slaves to machines and I know a later book discovers Earth.

The Culture destroying the ring world merely so the enemy don't get it reminds me of Soviet scorched earth policy.

I saw one episode of Firefly that was mostly boring though I liked the alliance ship at the end. I merely couldn't get into "Cowboys in space". We were discussing Joss Wheedon after I overheard a friend call him a whore. I asked him why he was calling my 6th cousin a whore, and we got to talking. He pointed out Star Wars was cowboys in space but I said Han solo didn't wear a trench coat and use a revolver.

[dogscoff]

Randallw said:
I recall they had just left the ringworld that was blown up and Horza killed the captain and replaced him. The culture agent told the crew who he was. It had promise. I liked the ringworld, and the spaceship combat stuff, but I can't stand the stance it takes.

Fair enough. bear in mind though that your view of the Culture in that book is coloured by Horza's outlook. When you read the others you see it from a different point of view. It's supposed to be different to the society we live in though, and it's supposed to be challenging.

I wanted the Religious aliens to win.

Who says they don't?

Normally I would never support aliens over humans but the humans in the book aren't human, they're slaves to machines

No, not slaves at all. The Minds and drones don't need slaves, they could exist perfectly happily without any humans at all. In fact, you could argue that their existence would be considerably easier without. No, they keep humans around and make life (very) comfortable because they like them. Minds are whimsical like that, and that's what's so appealing about them. They are very much like the old Greek/Roman Gods: Insanely powerful, but obsessed with watching/ tinkering in human affairs. Maybe that makes the humans in the Culture more like pets than slaves (and this is explicitly said in at least one of the books- excession I think), but they do still have freedom- people leave the Culture all the time, and humans are definitely respected.

In fact you could argue that they're *more* human than us: Without the stresses and pressures of trying to scratch a living/ accumulate wealth/ stay alive etc, they have the free time and resources to devote to *being* human. The Culture would probably argue that we are slaves to our economy, and they would probably be right.

and I know a later book discovers Earth.

Actually that's in one of the first Cuture books: A short(ish) story in State of the Art. It's extremely funny. They are in orbit around 1970s Earth, sending down people in diguise to learn as much as possible about Earth society. The bit where one of them watches Star Wars and then asks the ship for a working lightsaber is brilliant.

The Culture destroying the ring world merely so the enemy don't get it reminds me of Soviet scorched earth policy.

Note that they evacuated it first.
An Orbital (not quite a Ringworld) is a massive structre, but not such a big deal to the Culture. I think their resources are so vast and their attitudes are such that the loss of material things doesn't bother them too much. They'll just build another one. Hell, I wouldn't put it past them to go back, scoop up every bit of matter from the original and put it back together from the same bits. Just because they can- Like I said, whimsical.

I saw one episode of Firefly that was mostly boring though I liked the alliance ship at the end. I merely couldn't get into "Cowboys in space". We were discussing Joss Wheedon after I overheard a friend call him a whore. I asked him why he was calling my 6th cousin a whore, and we got to talking. He pointed out Star Wars was cowboys in space but I said Han solo didn't wear a trench coat and use a revolver.

Firefly takes a little getting used to but once you're in, you'll love it. Note that it is the ONLY science-fiction anything that my wife actually likes (and she doesn't just like it, she loves it too=-). If it helps, ignore the "space" bit and concentrate on the cowboys bit. In fact, even that is irrelevant. JW's stuff is all about the characters. You could dump the crew of the Firefly or the cast of Buffy in just about any setting and it wouldn't matter, it would still work.

I really don't see any reason for anyone to call JW a whore- he makes good, entertaining TV that people like to watch, and he gets paid for it. What the hell is wrong with that?

[Randallw]

I don't know why he said that, we got distracted after I mentioned he was a relative.

The appendicies to the book said the religious aliens lost. Maybe the other books are better, I'll never know. I gave it a chance, he failed to interest me adequately. No more giving him money. I didn't just go to the back of the book. I was actually reading an article about the aliens and it mentioned the series, at which point I realised I'd never read it. Actually for awhile I was aware of them at the shop but I never got around to trying one.

I couldn't give Firefly the benefit of the doubt when the intro messed things up by saying they found a system with 100s of habitable planets. Now unless aliens, that were never mentioned, were involved I assume they meant to say a section of space. Anyhow I don't give more than 2 chances (3 is so generic). I have never watched Buffy and I only ever watched one epsiode of Angel because he was turned into a muppet. For awhile I thought that green demon guy was Quentin Tarrantino.