Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod (and summary file) 1.1

[DrPraetorious]

The angels are a lot more useful for Marignon than for Pythium. Marignon has recruitable sacred troops enough to at least *justify* a strong bless, marignon doesn't get air magic (hence the harbinger).

The price points might be marginally high, since astral pearls are so precious in large amounts - but people certainly do use the angel summons, so I think they're okay.

Didn't you forget holy pyre, or are we ignoring national combat spells?

[Sombre]

I'm just looking at national summons right now. Weak summons are my bugbear.

But I'm sure QM would like feedback on other national spells. They are one of the most time consuming and tricky things to look at when balancing.

[quantum_mechani]

DrPraetorious said:
The angels are a lot more useful for Marignon than for Pythium. Marignon has recruitable sacred troops enough to at least *justify* a strong bless, marignon doesn't get air magic (hence the harbinger).

I think Pythium gets at least as much use or more out of them (they have astral gems coming out their ears). I agree they are pretty much fine as they are though.

[Sombre]

Before I post some more stuff, I want to revise what I said about two summons for Kailasa/Bandar/Patala.

Contact Yaksha - 1 / 25 - N2E1, RL4 - These are buildable by Kailasa so are unlikely to be summoned. They also cost gold upkeep. They can be summoned by Patala, though they aren't especially attractive to them. For Bandar Log they are nice enough summons for the Rishis, though there is some difficulty in getting them. The cost is ok at 1 / 25 or so considering the access into earth.


Contact Yakshini - 1 / 25 - N2W1, RL4 - These are buildable by Kailasa so are unlikely to be summoned. They also cost gold upkeep. They can be summoned by Patala, though they aren't especially attractive to them. For Bandar Log they are nice enough summons for the Rishis, though there is some difficulty in getting them. W3 is simply less useful than E3, making the Yakshini less appealing than the Yaksha, so I think they should be cheaper. 1 / 20 or 22.


I can't be bothered to go back and edit the original entries where I was mistaken about a couple of things.

[Sombre]

ABYSIA MA - Same as Abysia EA

CAELUM MA - Same as Caelum EA.

CTIS MA - Same as Ctis EA.

PANGAEA MA - Same as Pangaea EA.

VANHEIM MA - Did I forget Vanheim EA? Anyway, all they get is Pack of Wolves, which I've discussed. They can't cast it with recruitables anyway.

JOTUNHEIM MA - Same as Niefelheim EA.


BANDAR LOG MA - Get all of Kailasa EA's summons AND all of Lanka EA's too, plus these.


Summon Nagas - 6 / 20 - W2E1, RL3 - All the water and earth naga summons are virtually uncastable by Bandar Log recruitables. They also all require gold upkeep, which is a bit unfortunate. In terms of fighting ability, Naga Warriors fall short of Ghandharvas but are better than Apsaras. Bandar Log is the only nation that gets these Naga summons and the only realistic way to use them is either with pretender magic to get a Naga Commander who then searches for water gems and summons the troops,.. or with 1 in 4 of your Yakshini. Because of this the Naga troops are effectively higher in research than they appear and are very hard to cast. They should therefore be considerably cheaper, to compete with the astral summons. I suggest 6 / 10.


Contact Nagini - 1 / 25 - W2E1, RL4 - These give access into water and earth, but only 1/4 have E2 and 1/4 W3. They can seduce in their second form, which is fairly useful, though they are expensive for just that. Considering the trouble Bandar Log will have getting water gems to cast them, the fact they cost gold upkeep, their relatively underwhelming stats/magic and the fact that the Yaksha/Yakshini provide better and easier access to water and earth, I think they should be 1 / 20.


Contact Nagaraja - 1 / 30 - W2E2, RL5 - I'm not sure why these should ever cost more than Nagini. They have worse magic in exchange for another level of holy and better thug/leader stats and they are harder to cast. Gotta be 1 / 20 or maybe even lower. The difference is largely cosmetic though. I think reducing the requirement to W2E1 to match the Nagini would would also be fair.


Contact Nagarishi - 1 / 40 - W3E3, RL6 - The problem with Nagarishi is that they are very hard to cast and for 50 nature gems you can get a Yakshini AND a Yaksha who provide you with roughly the same amount of magic, with guaranteed W3 and E3 and are more versatile. Yaksha /Yakshini are far easier to cast - you can get them with your Rishis. So what should be done with the Nagarishi? It could be reduced to 1 / 30 but it would still be a complete pain in the arse to actually cast. Perhaps at 1/30 but with the requirement of W3/E2. That way you'd have more chance of getting one using a Nagini, if for some reason you actually have water gems rather than nature.


NB. In CBM1.1 the Nagini and Nagaraja were swapped in terms of research level, the Nagaraja was reduced to 1 / 25 and the Naga warriors were 6 / 10 already.

[DrPraetorious]

Do you really have nothing better to do with pearls than make angels with them?

I almost always make a couple of the thug angels, and the heavenly host is great to diversify into fire (although - who really cares about fire?), but give me an extra hundred astral pearls, I'm not going to spend them on more angels.

[llamabeast]

The angels were a pretty key part of my joint victory in Alpaca. I think they're awesome. There aren't that many other comparable SC chassis apart from Tartarians and elemental royalty.

[Alneyan]

At the risk of looking like the local dofus, what's the status of CBM? The pointers I've found resulted in 404s, and I'm not sure if there's actually been a release for 3.10. So, where should I go to get CBM?

[Agrajag]

I got mine from Pashadawg, he Emailed it to everyone in the RAND MP game
(Emailed because everyone was having problems downloading it)

EDIT: I attached what I have to this message, I'm pretty sure this should work. (I don't have it all packed, so I repacked all the files that I think belong to cbm.)
Its in a .rar archive.

[Serenity]

Well that didnt work for my 3.10.

Worked for anyone else?