TI what is it good for?

[Ramm]

Hi all,

I don't have much expeirence on this forum.(I spend most of my lesiure time playing, because this game is so addictive to me)
I would like to apoligize in advance for breaking any unwritten rules when posting. Thanks :-D

THE POLL:

(A) Do you feel that TI affects your enjoyment of SPMBT when playing soviet technolgy against western technolgy or vice versa during 1980-1994?(YES - NO)
(B) In what way and to what extent would you describe your play expeirence being affected?
(C) Any other comments you would like to add?

1. [A] Yes, although I do not use PBEM.
[b] When I have TI agaisnt an AI that does not have TI, it feels like I'm a Turkish machine gunner in the film "Gallipoli". The carnage of my opponent is so easy it horrifies my sense of fair play.
On the other hand when the AI and my position is reversed, I feel like I'm one of the CIA soldiers in the film "Predater". Where I lose powerfull units to an unseen and devious alien hunter, where at every corner my 'state of the art' eastern bloc assets can and do fall victem at no warning to the "predater". I am thus afraid to even move my units outside of spawn, lest the "predater" be drawn to them by the scent of their fear.
[C] In case your wondering I always play with at least 10,000 points + half of support points on assualt and all of support points on defend. On average half of my units are afv's the other half are leg class units.

The reason I did this poll was just to see where other wargamers stood on the matter
I seriously doubt Mobhack will even consider the possibility of making any changes. Although I admit no changes may be needed, after reading many other posts I'm paranoid that this may be dismissed out of hand.

[pdoktar]

Thermal Imaging is really effective in real life too. When I was riding an BMP-1 with experimental turret from LAV-25 fitted to it, american thermals give us a distinct advantage of seeing even single soldiers through forest and underbrush from a few hundred meters out waiting for us in an ambush. It nothing like the old infrared or nightvision devices. Some things are really lit up on it.

And if you think TI gives a massive advantage, you can see that it costs quite a lot in the cost calculator too. If you have no TI and opponent have, you must drag him into close quarters ambush. You´ll have more units than him for a given set of points. In 1980, Soviet armor is quite tough against usually used 105mm ammo. Only TOW can kill you instantly. However wen 120mm comes to the scene you´ll be in a distinct disadvantage against 120+TI.

And for the poll: Yes TI affects my gameplaying, but in a good way, since I´ve used to its characteristics. for example missile teams with TI cost usually 100+ points.. if you plaster one out with an artillery barrage or inf-mmgs you can bet it feels good. The point equivalent of 4 infatry squads wiped out in an instance from the enemy arsenal. Usually my thermal fitted vehicles are tanks and FO units, maybe a few missile teams carefully hidden because of their vulnerability to anykind of fire.

[Ramm]

It would be greatly appreiacted if a webmaster could put this post in the equipment section


as for pdokar, Thanks for responding to my post. I look forward to trying your tactics.

[RecruitMonty]

Answer: Blowing stuff up.

[Marcello]

My opinion on the matter is that the game should represent reality to the best our understanding of it and game limitations. And as far is known TI is indeed a huge advantage. Balance is to be achieved by pricing and scenario setup rather than tweaking code on the basis of a misguided sense of fairness. This, mind you, comes from somebody who is accustomed to play as the iraqis against the US in 1991. Even in such loopsided engagements it is possible to achieve at least draw if numbers, terrain etc are carefully exploited.

[Suhiir]

I know personally I'd LOVE to see TI capability available at ranges (and costs) less then 40 hexes. There's no reason/need for a 40 hex range on infantry squads, MMG's, Inf AT (LAAW, SMAW, RPG, etc) weapons yet if you want TI capability you're currently "stuck" with a 40 hex range/cost.

I suspect this is one of those issues where no change is practical because it's buried in the code and would require going thru every unit in every OOB to implement.

As to changing my game play.
Definitely !

[Ramm]

Thanks everyone for responding. The exellent attitude of wargamers here is a major reason why this game is so fun. I have a few more questions if you will bear with me,

RecruitMonty, If you can find the time and wouldn't mind indulging my curiosity could you answer [A],[b] and [C]. Thanks

Marcello, if you wouldn't mind sharing your exploits agaisnt the US this would be exellent, the BEST I can do agaisnt U.S. Army with Iraq is a marginal defeat! thats the BEST, I suck X-D. I would love to learn from your expeirence. Thanks

[Marcello]

Marcello, if you wouldn't mind sharing your exploits agaisnt the US this would be exellent, the BEST I can do agaisnt U.S. Army with Iraq is a marginal defeat! thats the BEST, I suck X-D. I would love to learn from your expeirence. Thanks

It isn't really that difficult, I am a mediocre player really (what I actually do most of the time is using mobhack and testing what I have created in shooting range style scenarios). The key is employing the terrain in such a way as to have the americans driving past your positions and then getting them with flank and rear shots by T-72s. Typically this means a reverse slope defense where the tanks are hugging the base of the ridge or others available reliefs, hidden inside their irregularities as to eliminate (to the extent this is possible) frontal fire arcs, retaining only narrow side fire arcs and large rears ones. This ensures that when the Abrams charge beyond the ridge top at least a few T-72s can survive to get flank and rear shots.
This is of course possible under SPMBT near laboratory conditions. In real life an iraqi commander who had been ordered to deploy on an essentially flat terrain, who could expect the enemy coming from several directions, had little idea of the exact US tactical capabilities and faced an US commander usually smarter than your run of the mill videogame AI was in a rather uglier predicament.

[Marek_Tucan]

And mind you, Iraq-US scenarios are about the worst situation you can get into. Get into mid-European typical terrain with hills, forests, villages and towns and you get major boost of non-TI forces as it is much easier to hide even from TI. Under correct circumstances even lowly T-55 can ambush Abrams with fatal results.

[DRG]

Actually this IS about the worse " worse case sceanrio" I can think of. A newbie playing as the Iraqi's in the desert against the Americans.

No..... I stand corrected, you could have the map visibility set to 5 for a night battle. That would be worse.

Maybe a nice "balkans" battle in the 1960s might make a better game at this stage for you?

Don