Some spotting Qs

Borscope · #1 July 16th, 2008, 02:56 AM

Ok, the guide says vehicles w/ passengers spot better due to more eyeballs.

1:If I have a vehicle w/ say; vision 40, carrying infantry without any kind of NVGs, do they increase the vehicle's chances of spotting out to the 40 hexes (and visibility is say 10)?

2: Does the vision rating increase spotting chances (within the vision range?) even if visibility is greater (i.e. TI picking out engine heat behind netting or whatever)?

3: Do enclosed/APC class vehicles differ from open-topped/tank rider in spotting ability?

4: Any chance of incorporating a "spin-search all my units" button in the future? I read that the AI has something like this in a recent patch. (My right click mouse button is about worn out now!)

Thanks in advance for any help.

Mobhack · #2 July 16th, 2008, 04:35 AM

1) AFAIR - having passengers helps the spotting chance. All units use the best spotting equipment, so if it has TI, it will use it. Just like the commanders pintle AAMG gets the TI benefit, there is no individual differentiation as it is a unit variable.

2) TI will spot things better. Any night vision helps a little bit in smoke - a unit with II (30 vis) can see grunts behind a little smoke that its just offloaded rifle section (vis 0) cannot see, even in daytime.

3) passengers are passengers. No difference.

4) pardon me but I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Andy

Wdll · #3 July 16th, 2008, 04:49 AM

For 4, I think he means have it so that it auto search/look around for enemy units. So you choose one of your units and instead of turning it around on spot to detect anything, it automaticaly does it or use a button to do it when you want to.

Mobhack · #4 July 16th, 2008, 05:33 AM

We have no plans for that.

Cheers
Andy

PanzerBob · #5 July 16th, 2008, 07:52 PM

I guess he'll have to manually prod his troops to be more vigilant.

Borscope · #6 July 16th, 2008, 08:45 PM

Thanks for the info on 1-3. As for 4, no worries. Helps the AI and punishes lazy commanders. A broken mouse button is just another random breakdown of CoC

c_of_red · #7 July 17th, 2008, 03:29 PM

4. is already there, or at least it is in the CD version. It has been so long since I saw the DL version I can't remember.
On the screen where you adjust the range gate for op fire and set the op fire filters (CD version) there is a switch that highlights ALL the hexes that unit has LOS to.
The 'click 360' trick works for infantry units, since they get a slight increase in searching percentage in the direction they are facing. I think it is that slight bump that causes a new "seen/not seen" calculation. Rolling snake eyes isn't easy, but if you don't roll the die, it's impossible. I don't think it works with vehicles, since they don't get a searching bonus for their facing (I am not real sure about this, since it is something that can change over the course of various patches of the game). I know that the original SP releases gave that searching bonus to infantry units and I don't recall seeing that it has been taken away. Being a lazy American,I don't do the 'click 360' anymore, now that I have a nice button to do it for me. I don't know if that button recalculates the "seen" units or not. I imagine 'not'.
I have never noticed it working with vehicles, even though I have done the 'click 360' many times with scout units.
My SOP for scouts is to move 1 hex, click 360, repeat until I see something or have reached my new hide. I do that because I know that moving to a new hex DOES generate a new "seen/not seen" calculation.
The Law of probability says that all die rolls have the same chance of being snake eyes ( somewhere around 2%, IIRC).
The Law of Casualty ( cause and effect) says that if you keep rolling the die until you get snake eyes, the chance of getting snakes eyes is 100%

c_of_red · #8 July 17th, 2008, 03:40 PM

BTW, there is terminology thingie you need to be aware of.
"SPOTTING" means calling down artillery. Looking for an enemy unit is NOT called spotting to avoid confusion. Searching is the term most used. Seeing, looking are good too.
To say a unit Spotted another unit means it called down indirect fire on it.
This can seem like a tiny thing, or at least to me it does, but there is a seed there for great confusion. When dealing with computers lower confusion levels are seen as beneficial.
Ditto for computer programmers.

Mobhack · #9 July 17th, 2008, 03:57 PM

The show visible hexes button only shows all the currently visible hexes from that unit.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with searching for new units.

Cheers
Andy

c_of_red · #10 July 17th, 2008, 07:29 PM

'Hidden' units 'pop up' from time to time. Mostly because a change in suppression gives them a better searching roll, which they then make. Logic says that in order to make their new roll, there has to be a new roll in the first place. So one can deduce that the change in suppression has created a new search roll for units within LOS. So back in the day, it was normal to see if there was LOS to a certain hex. Sometimes in the process of right clicking to change facing and check the LOS, a 'hidden' unit would lose it's hidden status. So one deduces that it was the change in facing that generated the new search. That led to the 'click 360' scouting technique.
If the search has a 6% chance of success, doing it 6 times won't increase that 6%, but it will give you 5 more chances to make that 6%. Think of it as noticing something but not being sure what it is so you take a closer look.
So I think the real question is if that 'show visible hexes' button calls the search routine like changing facing for an infantry unit does. I think your answer was no.
I'm not sure about that because if there is no LOS then you cannot 'see' a unit, which makes the LOS critical to seeing a unit.