Orientalism in Dominions

[HoneyBadger]

Our mythology is someone else's cutting edge science. As will our cutting edge science likely someday be myth to our projeny. Scary thought, but the only non-arrogant conclusion we can come up with.

[JimMorrison]

Psionics all taste like purple to me. Even Oriental Psionics.

[HoneyBadger]

Purple tastes like grape kool-aid.

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Psionics all taste like purple to me. Even Oriental Psionics.

yeah but not just purpley purple. more like an ethereal whitish nebula purple.

[Spendios]

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

> Its a fantasy game, with fantasy flavors.

No way! It's a space game, with psionic flavours.

BTW we all love Orientalism, so why deny that dominions is orientalistic. I don't think Omni or anyone else wants to change that. He just wants to show us ourselves, and it tis a beautiful sight Look at me! I'm awesome!

Sorry! We were talking about you.
Look at you! You are also awesome!

What about showing us pictures of orientalised dragons ?

[HoneyBadger]

Kristoffer's working on them, apparently, but last I heard, they were coming out like those dragons from Wang's Temple of Celestial Take-Out, so he's revising them.

[Poopsi]

Originally Posted by TheMenacer

Like I said in my previous post, I think the OP's point about orientalism is perfectly valid, but I don't think that the game's offensive in the slightest specifically because everyone gets painted with that brush pretty liberally. Yeah, you've totally got the eastern nations given a romanticized version of their mythology, but every other nation has it too, from the ice giants stomping around the frozen northlands to the forests full of faeries and trolls. There isn't a single nation who doesn't have aspects of their culture and mythology exaggerated and brought to the fore in order to make it more interesting. I mean hell look at the Ermor. They accidentally unleashed death itself trying to resurrect Jesus. I honestly don't think that's any more offensive than extrapolating a nation with hindu mythology from the monkey section of The Jungle Book.

Wait, wait, can someone fill me in about the backstory gleamed about Ermor? I thought it was more something on the lines of a doom prophecy (The EA ermor augurs have in their description something about sending researchers to Ctis to find out a new power that will help them rule the world, and that they are growing desperate because of a secret end-of-the-empire prophecy)

[AdmiralZhao]

EA Ermor has some fairly clear parallels with Rome and the start of Christianity. While the MA Ermor doesn't seem to tie in with history very well, LA Ermor can be interpreted as a what-if variant of Rome, where the Resurrection went off as promised and the faithful from EA Ermor's time are brought back to life. If it weren't for all the "evil-evil all the time" flavor text in LA Ermor, one could even view them as good guys, undead saints bringing about an age where everyone lives forever in peace. But Ermor is evil, so the end effect is a sort of heretical conflation of the Resurrection with the standard undead empire from so many fantasy books.

At least that's my thoughts on it . If a developer wanted to share the actual ideas behind LA Ermor, I would be very interested.

[alansmithee]

Originally Posted by Omnirizon

Orientalism is the representation of the Orient in and by the Occident. The 'Orient' nations in Dominions would be the Bandar Log nations including Lanka (India), C'tis (Egypt), Tien Chi (China), and Yomi/Shinuyama/Jomon.

Isn't it funny how all these nations, with the exception of TC, are flavored using anthropomorphisms and celestial/demonic themes whereas all other nations are just humans (or giant humans) of some kind? Does this demonstrate the effect of Orientalism in Occidental historical consciousness?

To TC as an exception, historically China and Japan are areas of the Orient that were never fully sublimated to Occidental empiricism. Thus they are always seen as duplicitous in Occidental representations, but rarely sexualized, mysticized, and romanticized in the way that other areas of the Orient were. Incidentally, China and Japan are the only modern competing world powers of the Orient. Both TC and Yomi as relations of their respective nations are still fully under the auspices of Orientalism as TC (and Jomon to some point) is portrayed as very authoritative and hierarchical, while Yomi et al are fleshed out with themes of devious demons. Both nations draw on celestial/demonic themes, things which are seen as irrational in the occident and complete the Oriental representation of these nations.

Not that I don't like the way these nations and their themes were constructed. The thing about Orientalism is that it _is_ the Orient. Its very emergence abolished on originary Orient. But to assume that it alone is responsible for the loss of a pure Orient is fallacy. The western theory that Orientalism draws upon tells us that there is no such thing as a pure history, or even "a history". The relation of these nations in both the Dominions and the Occident as a whole is only a performance then, not a static and deliberate representation.

I think there might be some merit in the overall theme of your post, but I think there are many things that are highly erroneous. I don't see how anyone can see how China and Japan are portrayed and have been historically portrayed and not see them as being sexualized, mysticized, and romanticized. Many people still think that China is nothing but kung-fu masters and monks, and Japan is filled with samurai, ninja, and geisha. For that matter, most people hardly even think of Egypt or India as being part of the Orient (I'm fairly certain Egypt at least has never been considered Oriental). Much of what you are railing against are things that have actually been taken from the culture which it is based on. And as for celestial/demonic themes, why not mention Marignion? Most of their summons (unique, at least) are various angels and demons. Which I think epitomizes celestial and demonic themes. So are they also an "Oriental" nation?

I think the developers have been pretty clear about their influences in how they constructed the game, and I don't see some vast anti-"Oriental" conspiracy.

[zzcat]

What a surprise! I never thought the "big words" like postcolonial theory,orientalism and obscurantism will be found in a game forum

As an oriental, I see some ironies in TC & Jomon but no more than those in Ermor and Marignon. The mythical theme and (intended) misunderstanding just make the nations more unique. PC is good, but not funny.

BTW, Is there any plan to make nations base on Persian & Zoroastrianism? I think it's too important in history to be omited...