Preponderance - Big Team Game! [1-2 subs needed!]

[namad]

what made games on large maps fun in the past? what needs to be done to change things? do larger maps always need to have harder research to keep things more reasonable?

the thing i don't understand is that i've read every post in this thread as far as i can tell... and no where do i specifically see anyone including you... saying anything about thinking caelum would get the win... maybe i missed a page in the thread somehow? i literally just didn't see anyone post about it ever and i was just curious to read the post... so if anyone could point out to me the page #? i'll go read it

[Micah]

After Zeldor's post about calling the game due to the staling I asked if we might be able to get a victory by decision since I felt we were clearly in the best spot once homer/atul were out of the picture.

Zeldor asked that I talk to Atul about the situation and Atul said he was fine conceding to us. This all happened on IRC.

Since the two biggest teams were fine ending the game with a decision in our favor we (QM, Zeldor, Atul and myself) were hoping that the rest of the players would also agree to it, since continuing the game was becoming increasingly problematic for the reasons I detailed above.

And to answer your question: what made earlier games on large maps (more) fun was mostly that the player base was more widely spaced in terms of skill when the game was newer, and it was easier to crush inexperienced players and get an advantage to press on into a new conflict, snowballing your wins into a victory around turn 60 before the recursive gem generating really kicks in. I think knowledge about the most optimal tactics was also less widely available, so games didn't turn into as much of a horde-fest. After the experienced of this game I'm hoping to start playing gem-gen free games, it seems like it'll make for a lot more fun.

[PsiSoldier]

Maybe you should go AI then Micah and QM since your not having fun and if Atul cant find a sub and doesnt have interest in playing anymore than he can go AI too.

No where on the game thread does it say Victory condition is by having the best position. At least I certainly dont recall seeing that one anywhere. If your not having fun than ****ing quit and let those that are continue without you and your crying and *****ing.

[Micah]

*shrug* Alright. If you want to play what's essentially SP you're more than welcome to as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see why Zeldor would mind giving you the host files.

You've clearly not been listening to what I've been saying though, which is that the economy of the game is completely broken at this point. That is why the game should be ended, above and beyond any fun factor. I've stuck out every single other game I've been in to the end (see arti and the last team game for examples if you'd like, as well as all of the games I've lost) and this one is a clear exception to that because of how degenerate it has become.

I certainly didn't expect it to happen when I joined the game, but it's undeniable at this point. Saying that QM and I shouldn't have joined this game is like complaining that a ballgame is canceled because a tornado touched down in the stadium. I suppose it's up for debate if the team that was ahead when the game was called should be given credit for a win, but I don't think anyone would blame them for asking.

Regardless, there are clearly exceptional circumstances at work here in terms of the Dominions engine being subject to a few exploits this late into a large game. I guess you just haven't been in enough late game situations to really understand the underlying problems here, but it's pretty clear that all of the vets have given up on this game. I'm just the only one competitive enough to try to salvage a win out of it, since I think our situation justifies it in light that the game is over/broken at this point, and I didn't want to just abandon a winning position without at least seeing if people would be reasonable about things. Evidently not.

[namad]

solution to the unfunness problem might be ... fixed duration games...


on turn X whoever has the most Y wins no questions asked.. just before turn X there will be a hot amount of fighting just like in VP grab situations??


if no one has the most Y on turn X it would be a draw...


X could be 40or50or60or70... Y could be provinces or VP's or income/gemincome/provinces (all three required)

this way you wouldn't have to get someone's opinion on if they think something that isn't a win technically should count as a win anyways...


in a fixed duration game i suppose you could also still make it so that if someone obtained 50% of the vp's before the turn X deadline they could "win early"






in baseball a game must complete 5innings for it to be called a win for the team in the lead... such clauses could be added to future games (clauses other than the ones i suggested but again in this spirit of baseball-ness)

i have no problem with someone considering themselves the victory of something at any point... personally i would never accept a victory in which I had not "won" the thing is... if everyone except qm/micah/psisoldier went AI psisoldier would most certainly lose... the other point being though that while qm/micah might be in the "best" position their combined effectiveness is probably something like 45% of the games combined might (which is less than half) BUT there is a) no alliance against them and b) no one willing to play in such an alliance anyways...


you know what would be fair maybe? every team in the game votes and if a majority votes to give the win... then it is a win? because right now as far as i can tell the only voting that has been done is.... micah/qm vote they win psisoldier votes they draw utgard/bogarus wishes to abstain... everyone else is too lazy to have said anything at all that leaves 3teams yet to vote if either of you could get two of them to agree with you that would be fairly good cause to consider yourself "right" ? yes?

[PsiSoldier]

I guess maybe I just dont share your pessimism that the game will run on for an eternity. If you went AI and it did then I guess you would have the last laugh but its still a victory by VP game and its my belief that it can still be concluded within a respectable time frame. Although my idea of Respectable time frame may be different from your own.

[namad]

if every team except atul/micah's teams still wants to play it might be worth trying to find two subs and continue playing... but if marignon or van don't want to play then it's definitely over... i really wish we could get ossa or drp or someone to voice their opinion on this instead of just ending their game on them without their input

[Edi]

One input you are going to get in this thread is to keep it civil. Some of the last few posts have been clearly in the unacceptable category. Don't make it necessary for the mods to reach for the thread tools menu.

[Zeldor]

I have asked DrP, Gregstrom and Ossa to voice their opinion. I will wait for them and act accordingly.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, I think we've actually turned our position around, and that in the aftermath of a titanic battle between Utgard/Bogarus and Caelum/Caelum (is that who is still playing?) we might come out ahead. More likely, though, I'd contribute just enough to whoever I thought was losing, so that they'd win.

Anyway, I don't think that the game is over by any means - if we can set anyone who wants to quit to AI, we can just keep playing.

If we want to avoid something like this in the future, we should use victory point accumulation .