Sovarinthy - an EA game for somewhat busy people (in progress)

[BesucherXia]

Hmmm... Two more SCs were lost in this war. But pangaea is still processing to its goals.
I am hesittaed to ask this, but if others are also losing interests in continuing the game, I would not mind stopping it either.

It is a very impressive game though.

[Bananadine]

Like I said before, Hinnom will never give up! ...But if you find it boring or painful enough to continue that you must quit, then it would be pretty silly of me to pretend I've beaten you.

And, although my willingness to play a nation until it's destroyed borders on insanity, I will definitely try to make things more pleasant for the winner, in future games that I host--by making the map smaller, or the victory conditions looser, or both.

[Bananadine]

To clarify: I'm specifically interested in the idea of taking the game seriously enough that nobody ever quits. I want to do that, and I want to play with others who do that. And now I am finding out what happens when you do that. It does feel silly to finish this game, but sometimes doing silly things helps you learn!

I swear I could have saved Agartha's capital from Fomoria, if the guy had just stayed around for one more turn! I had about a dozen rings of tamed lightning all ready for his super-powerful earth mages to wear. But instead he lost interest, and staled on the exact turn when my offer of the rings reached him, so that when his mages retaliated they had no defense against lightning and they were slaughtered. People should not give up!

(Granted, a strong Agartha to rival Fomoria might only have made Pangaea's ascension easier, but the principle stands.)

Of course both of you guys have already played the way I want people to play; if you want to quit now that's fine. I will stay until the end.

[Gregstrom]

I have to admit I thought Agartha gave up a little quickly - I'd only taken two of his provinces. However, I think very little other than an alliance of most of the remaining players against Pangaea would have actually changed the outcome of the game.

[BesucherXia]

I beileve its because seeing Fomoria so esaily destroying Agartha that made the sauromatia give up, also forced Pangaea to enter this area. Fom had army decent enough to block Pangaea and had driven Pangaea to avoid a war in the openfield, it was due to the gap left by Sauromatia that finally let Pangaea overrun the borders.

I am no longer the guy enjoying playing against impossible AIs in huge map until ascension. At this point I know everything is just a matter of time and it can not be called a war anymore - like the two SCs lost in last turn, the major issue for me is only to calculate which gears should be forged again and how to cut the item list short in the lab. Thats not about challenge or strategy, just about working.

In my all Dom games I have never surrendered a single one, yet I have also never played a game using so much time. (say 5-6 hours just to finish the move without much thought in one turn, and its quite usual to script for one battle for extra hours.) Now I hear Fom is ready to surrender, I beilieve its the best time to save the fun and discuss some other things of this game. This will also improve your dom skills far more than just clicking against some AIs. (also improve my English)

[Bananadine]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

I have to admit I thought Agartha gave up a little quickly - I'd only taken two of his provinces. However, I think very little other than an alliance of most of the remaining players against Pangaea would have actually changed the outcome of the game.

Yeah, maybe. But at the time, I thought you were the strongest nation, and therefore that if you took Agartha, you might become too strong to stop. If my assessment of the situation had been correct, then rescuing Agartha with my lightning rings would have improved my chance of winning, and whether I was right or wrong, accepting my offer certainly would have improved Agartha's chance of winning. As it turned out, I was wrong to think that Fomoria was the most dangerous nation--but I was right to think that, if I were going to win, then the world must remain in balance until I was strong enough to take over!

If we had all tried to keep our rivals in balance, and if we had all accurately estimated the strengths of the nations, then at some point everyone except Pangaea would have attacked Pangaea. Accurately estimating someone's strength is something one naturally learns to do over many games. But keeping rivals in balance is not something you'll ever learn, if you always focus on your local situation, ignore the greater world, and give up as soon as it looks like your local war is going to destroy you!

Originally Posted by BesucherXia

Now I hear Fom is ready to surrender, I beilieve its the best time to save the fun and discuss some other things of this game.

Hm yes.

I have learned some important things:

Hinnom is very, very strong.

Hinnom with a super-powerful blessing is probably not as strong as Hinnom with a weaker blessing... but it sure is fun!

In general, super-powerful blessings are not as strong as they appeared to me to be, before I played this game. I was unstoppable at the start, and at that point I could have crushed whoever I attacked, except R'lyeh. But I researched very slowly, due to my limited gold and resources and my drain scale, and now my mighty Rephaim are almost useless. It pleases me that the blessing system is balanced in this way.

EA Pangaea is VERY strong, if it has the chance to grow large.

Blood Vengeance is good... but it's not as good as I thought it was. (I wanted to use it to save my nation, once the numerous Pans and maenads became able to overcome my Rephaim, but that didn't work out--I guess I'd have been better off trying to summon more Grigori!)

The spell that sends a monster boar to terrorize a province (until it is found and killed) can be devastating. BesucherXia, I did not say anything about this when it happened (because I didn't want to encourage you to keep casting that spell), but when you sent several boars to raise unrest in my capital, it crippled me for several months! Even when I stopped taxing the people there, unrest was uncontrollable. The only way I was able to catch the boars was by rapidly researching Watcher, and then empowering an air Ammi in earth and air so that he could cast that spell, and then sending out a few Watchers to patrol. During most of the lengthy time this took, I was unable to recruit my strongest units, and of course I had no income from my capital. That spell can be extremely strong! (Of course, it wouldn't have been as powerful against me if I hadn't been relying so heavily on units that could only be recruited in the capitol. But even so, there are probably many situations in which you could badly hurt somebody by sending several monster boars into some key province of theirs!)

Hunting for blood slaves in one's capital is actually not a bad idea, when you don't get much money there anyway (due to poor scales) and on top of that all of your capital-only commanders raise unrest as soon as they're recruited because they are enormous, tyrannical man-eaters.

Caelum has a strong capitol fortress, and besieging it takes FOREVER.

I don't like entering into NAP's. I hate breaking my promises, so once I'm in a pact I feel like I must obey its terms--but it's hard to keep track of exactly when the pact ends, and anyhow, I am better at improvising than I am at making rigid plans, so chaos favors me more than order does... and entering into an NAP decreases chaos. I had trouble with a pact that BesucherXia and I made, because we unknowingly entered it with conflicting ideas about how long it should last, and then later I had trouble with a pact I made with Mictlan, because I miscounted the turns and attacked them when I wasn't supposed to. In fact that attack ended up killing their god (I think you saw that one Gregstrom!), and afterward I felt so badly about breaking a pact AND killing a god that I repaid Mictlan with a Ring of Wizardry. Which was expensive. In the future, I might make casual peace agreements that have no exact terms, but I will not enter any more NAP's!

[Gregstrom]

I learnt that Fomoria is definitely more powerful than I thought it was, although its magic diversity genuinely sucks. And I learnt that they really need a lot more air gems than I was getting. I should have put up the gem generator global rather than getting 2 Air Queens, really.

[BesucherXia]

Check the Hall of Fame, and you will find Pangaea is not so great. I guess its because I have taken more lands and found some really nice sites in the early turns that granted me chance.

Monstor boar is ok. I had calculated its effect and made a detail plan before sending them, also combined with toad rains to ensure your capitol with 100+ unrests. But they are not cheap. As I saw you have found the best solution - Watchers, I just decided to enter next phase and save gems for thugs/GE/items. Beileve me I once planned to capture your lands, and I did not want them fully ruined either- thats why I did not send them everywhere.

We all know its hard to capture a capitol, but the reward pays off. I beileve Hinnom should have sent more armys conquering the indy provinces when the victory is ensured. You do not need an elite army to fight the walls.

Another lesson learnt from this game: do not waste too much time "manipulating the balance". If you really have enough power, hide it and get more. I think hinnom had not learnt too much from the first Hinnom-Pangaea war. Using archer against maenads is feasible, but you had also seen my Air mages long before. Like what Fomoria had done to block my advance, you need multiple armys strong enough to destory the maenads, and you need to control the lost in each battle. After all, you were too late to summon your angels, and the GE you casted is not very useful against maenads at all. The summoned assassins are also a great waste, why not save them for your SCs and Faerie Queen?

[Bananadine]

Originally Posted by BesucherXia

Check the Hall of Fame, and you will find Pangaea is not so great. I guess its because I have taken more lands and found some really nice sites in the early turns that granted me chance.

Yes, this map is full of nice sites! Almost too full... I had two libraries for a long while--without those I might have done very badly. I also made lots of owl feather things and skull mentors though.

Originally Posted by BesucherXia

Monstor boar is ok. I had calculated its effect and made a detail plan before sending them, also combined with toad rains to ensure your capitol with 100+ unrests. But they are not cheap.

That's good to know! I would be especially afraid of a spell that strong, if it were cheap!

Originally Posted by BesucherXia

As I saw you have found the best solution - Watchers, I just decided to enter next phase and save gems for thugs/GE/items. Beileve me I once planned to capture your lands, and I did not want them fully ruined either- thats why I did not send them everywhere.

Haha I did a pretty good job of ruining my own lands, with my death scales and bad luck and blood hunting and man-eating. I remember that just before you entered one of those highly populous provinces near Egypt--I think it was Memphis or something? (my game isn't open right now)--there was a random plague there that killed half the people. Many thousands died!

Originally Posted by BesucherXia

We all know its hard to capture a capitol, but the reward pays off. I beileve Hinnom should have sent more armys conquering the indy provinces when the victory is ensured. You do not need an elite army to fight the walls.

Yeah. I thought the Rephaim would only need to hang out there for a little while--I recruited horn-blowers as fast as I could, to help bring down the walls, but my income was low and I needed the money for more Rephaim, too, since I only had one fortress for recruiting both kinds of units. (Even after that, I never built a single fortress!)

Originally Posted by BesucherXia

Like what Fomoria had done to block my advance, you need multiple armys strong enough to destory the maenads, and you need to control the lost in each battle. After all, you were too late to summon your angels, and the GE you casted is not very useful against maenads at all. The summoned assassins are also a great waste, why not save them for your SCs and Faerie Queen?

Yes, I wasn't well prepared to fight you--the whole time I'd been expecting Fomoria to eventually become our main foe. Also I was intending to use fire magic, assassins, and high-level blood spells against you, but I mostly didn't quite manage to use the fire, and as you point out, the assassins and blood spells weren't as useful as I'd planned. And I still haven't used the expensive ether warriors I summoned. (This was the first time I'd gotten so far into a game, so I hadn't cast most of these spells before!) I'd expected to give shrouds of the battle saint to my assassins, but then they turned out to be unable to wear armor, due to their wings! A disappointment.

I also hadn't realized the Grigori would be so strong. Several of those would have been great!

[Gregstrom]

Originally Posted by Bananadine

Yes, I wasn't well prepared to fight you--the whole time I'd been expecting Fomoria to eventually become our main foe.

Obviously I had privileged information about my own status, but there were a couple of giveaways that Pan were stronger than I was - they had about twice the territory I had (therefore ~2x the gem income), and 4 out of 5 globals.

Also I was intending to use fire magic, assassins, and high-level blood spells against you, but I mostly didn't quite manage to use the fire, and as you point out, the assassins and blood spells weren't as useful as I'd planned. And I still haven't used the expensive ether warriors I summoned. (This was the first time I'd gotten so far into a game, so I hadn't cast most of these spells before!) I'd expected to give shrouds of the battle saint to my assassins, but then they turned out to be unable to wear armor, due to their wings! A disappointment.

Assassins are generally considered not so good, it's true. And against Pan, who get some very useful patrollers...

Ether Warriors are decent thug-equivalents, and their leader can get you useful diversity.