Your Top 10 Super Combatant Builds

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Executor

Interesting, although I'd leave blood summons since their numbers are limited.

Something I'd like to try, maybe I'll start a game like this soon when I have more time,
A 4 team game with no Tartarians, gem generators of any kind, AC, AN, Burden of Time, Utherdark. More ordinary and conventional warfare.
Let's see Bane lords, Spectres or Firbolgs put to a bigger use and not just a rush for the chalice and than Tartarinas like in 90% of the games.

Interesting idea. Though I think gem generators aren't THAT fearsome. And why without armor-defeating weapons (if I read you right)?

[thejeff]

AC and AN are Astral Corruption and Arcane Nexus, if I read it correctly.

Gem generators (or more accurately Clams) lead to Wishes, which are the other path to tons of uber SCs.
If just you removed Tartarians, everyone who could would just try hard for giant clam factories and wish for Seraphs or whatever they wanted.

[Dragar]

Getting rid of tarts and clams is great.. I'm playing in the aforementioned Bloodless game and it is really interesting planning long term with those things taken away.. you really have to think about more innovative late game tactics, and there isn't a mad research rush for artifacts - take away need for chalice for tarts or Sceptre of Dark regency to boost death hugely and the major impetus is gone. Sure there are useful things, but they aren't generally game breakers

Hopefully I survive to the end game, should be fascinating

[Executor]

Gen generator are bigger game winners than Tartarians.
I just finished a game where I had 400 clams and blood stones, which led to me wishing for gems 6 times a turn, which is about 800 free gems.
That was 3 times more than what the score graphs showed.
Those 6 wishes enabled me 150 free death gems which I used to summon about 10 tartarians a turn.
Gem generators are VERY fearsome!!!

Not having clams means wishing is gonna be a lot harder, there most likely won't be any gem wishes, since you'll be saving those precious astral gems for a Seraph or Chayot or ??? something.

And as Dragar pointed out it takes away the rush for sceptre and chalice mostly, as there isn't so much a need for them than.

[DonCorazon]

I agree 100% with Executor. I have the misfortune to currently be stuck in 3 (well now 2) endgames. Its sad how similar they are - clamming, blood stones, etc with all the micro that entails. I spend more time rounding up gems than I do planning battles...uggh...its just not fun.

I will only join games without gem generators going forward. I don't mind Tarts as much, since they do help nations without decent national summons and open up some fun magic path combos that allow for creative scripting. They certainly don't make anyone invincible - i just lost 2 to the AIs 800HP Kraken in one game. But they do give a pretty big edge to whoever gets the Chalice.

That said, the more I play, the more I realize that just finding certain sites early on can pretty much determine who wins amongst competitive players. I am starting to wonder whether no independent mages or OP sites like Steel Ovens should also be a part of a balanced game, though that would take away a lot of the fun of site searching.

[chrispedersen]

Can't you set the map so no rare sites are used?

[Dragar]

The only problem with killing gem generators is the earth boost of bloodstones is worth keeping. Other than that I'm all for wiping out gem generators in all games I play - they are too powerful in the end game so most successful players will use it, and everyone will spend hours and hours of boring micro. Doing so would reduce mass tart creation anyway, so there wouldn't be so much of a need to ban them too. We'll end up with a lot more variety in the end game

[Aethyr]

Dragar, I agree with your previous post; getting rid of both gem generators & tarts would make for better and more interesting end-games.

[Omnirizon]

Tomb Oracle

(for Raiding/PD killing)
Fire-Brand/Charcoal Shield and
Frost-Brand/Demon Whip
Dragon Helm
Copper Plate
Boots of Flying
Luck Pendant
Amulet of Antimagic
script Diving Blessing (E9N4, hopefully), Summon Earthpower, Invulnerability, attack
100% all resistances, no equipment over Const4 (so you can get these guys out quick and then focus on other schools of magic), uses a spread of gems so no bottlenecks (and especially trying to use the generally useless fire gems)

or (for SC killing)
replace Boots of Flying with Boots of Quickness
replace Amulet of Antimagic with Fire Pearl
replace weapons with something appropriate, like Flambeau for undead, ect.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by DonCorazon

I agree 100% with Executor. I have the misfortune to currently be stuck in 3 (well now 2) endgames. Its sad how similar they are - clamming, blood stones, etc with all the micro that entails. I spend more time rounding up gems than I do planning battles...uggh...its just not fun.

I will only join games without gem generators going forward. I don't mind Tarts as much, since they do help nations without decent national summons and open up some fun magic path combos that allow for creative scripting. They certainly don't make anyone invincible - i just lost 2 to the AIs 800HP Kraken in one game. But they do give a pretty big edge to whoever gets the Chalice.

That said, the more I play, the more I realize that just finding certain sites early on can pretty much determine who wins amongst competitive players. I am starting to wonder whether no independent mages or OP sites like Steel Ovens should also be a part of a balanced game, though that would take away a lot of the fun of site searching.

I see. Nevertheless, Tartarians as SCs for everyone (and they ARE better than most) look quite boring to me. Micromanagement can be reduced with just the "pool" command. And this allows an access to Astral for nations which don't have it. And, as was said, Bloodstone is one of only 2 Earth boosters if we discount RoW, Elemental Staff and artifacts - which are all not everyday items. And - it's a way for MA Oceania to really do something. Actually, I think that unless you have a strong Astral nation already (and so can Wish for gems), you just never have enough gems without these items...