Tip: Template for reducing late game MM hell

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by fantasma

hammers allow for more forging which causes more MM. Removing them has two positive effects on managing:
1. Forging cheap stuff costs 67% more -> up to 40% less items
2. no need to find that mage with the hammer, anybody with the path can do it.

I think hammers introduce micro.

Reducing site frequency has a drastic influence, while reducing overall gem flow it makes finding specific gem types really unpredictable. I remember that game when - after searching all my provinces, 30 provs - I ended with a total of 1w! That was at 45%

Does anyone really not know where all their hammers are all the time? Does anyone really move them around all that much? I mostly give hammers to mages and set those mages to permanent forge duty, unless i have something special that needs making. And, surprise surprise, they're often the only mages not researching. I've never found forging to be annoying, and equipping items is quick and straightforward.

I find figuring out which paths a mage has is more micro, and that's important for things other than crafting. (Who can site search (manual or remote), who should go with the army, forging, ritual spells, etc...). It would help if, instead of having to rename all my casters A2W2D3 and the like there was a display on the overland commander view that listed all their paths, or it would come up on mouseover.

Finally, any removal of hammers would have to address how much this straightjackets nations into using nationally available magic types for items compared to default settings.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

Hmm, I think the tartarian thing would be quite easy to fix if there were some other nonunique SCs with about equal price and power.

So, it seems to me that Tarts should be cheaper than other equivalent options because you need research in 3 schools (Thaum for GoR, Constr for boosters - often significant boosters) and gems of two types, so the current 27 (12d + 15n) pricetag is cheap because they're harder to rush. Plus you need the Chalice or GoH or other healing options.

A straight-up SC without GoR that is equivalent should probably cost more on the order of 40-50 gems. A slightly weaker but less hassle SC could cost around 30-35 gems, and could help counter the rush to tartarians (or encourage runs to it solely because its less hassle).

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

I find figuring out which paths a mage has is more micro, and that's important for things other than crafting. (Who can site search (manual or remote), who should go with the army, forging, ritual spells, etc...). It would help if, instead of having to rename all my casters A2W2D3 and the like there was a display on the overland commander view that listed all their paths, or it would come up on mouseover.

You're aware that magic paths are listed on the F1 screen, right? It's not hard to spot the only H3 priest, or to find an A2 mage, etc.

-Max

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

You're aware that magic paths are listed on the F1 screen, right? It's not hard to spot the only H3 priest, or to find an A2 mage, etc.

-Max

I'm thinking more I'm looking at a territory with 20+ mages and i want to find all the ones with A4 or W3 or whatever. Figuring out which province he's in is not the hard part. And I want to be able to do it in the context of commander selection for forging/casting/moving, or army setup screen for spell scripting.

[Micah]

You can click on commanders from the F1 screen and it will select them and go to their province, so I never bother right-clicking my guys to check for paths if there are a pile of them, I just hit F1 and click from there. Same for tracking down boosters or hammers, though the display IS pretty small...hammers and gate cleavers are petty indistinguishable, for example.

[Illuminated One]

Hmm, the latter could probably be changed quite easily by giving hammers or cleavers a different icon.

And how about a costless useless unit with only as much slot as possible for holding stuff when the lab is full?

[fantasma]

my point about hammers was more in the line of you have significantly more forging going on with them, and more than 25% nominal savings. And it makes a difference as it delays the time you forge close to 50 items/turn.

Removing hammers has effects on balance, mainly for earth and thug-reliant nations, I guess, but that is a different question altogether.

[WraithLord]

This extract from the first post is what ppl think reduces MM w/o having serious side effect on balance/fun:
"
1. No gem gens.
Note: Efforts are being made at modding for compensating gem gen reliant nations.

2. Determine an upper limit on map sizes, # of players and reasonable victory conditions. Consensus
10-12 players, 10-15 provinces per player, 40% capital VPs victory condition.
Note. MM is in direct relation to how many provinces one controls at end game. Worst case scenario (MM wise) is 2 powers each controlling 30-40% of the map making war.
# of players and victory conditions have similar effect.

3. No Diplomacy. i.e. RAND.
Diplomacy is not directly related to MM but cutting that part of the game results in faster turn processing. Plus, it allows for different patterns of gaining victory (no alliances, NAP turtling, dog piling etc) which could be refreshing on it's own right.
"

I plan to participate in future games that follow these guidelines (1+2 for sure) and so be able to test first hand how they influence endgame MM.
Thanks for all the feedback!

[Hiisi]

Hi, im wondering that?

Is it possible to make spells that create gem sites?

[Sombre]

No.