phoenix pretender problems

[militarist]

Yes, that's what I trhough first. I'm just doing my Phoenix now for EA C`tis. What I like in Phoenix, is it's like a gun.. You just shoot him into some province, and even if he doesn't kill all, he kills part of defenders. You just reload the gun and shoot again.. And it's without risks to loose it! It looks for me better then Wyrm now. You can attack heavy cavalary, dark vines to kill slaves... And wyrm (which I like a lot) requires dom 9-10, ther is no magic on him, and you get your afflictions earlier or later, and useless in mid/endgame.

What I also like is no need to have high dominion for AWE , which is requirement for other SC gods (yes, I've read pluses to have it, but still I think it's not necessary).

Ctis are very limited in magic until conj 7-8-9, so I'm thinking how to spend points properly - and one of alternative builds was a4f4e4 phoenix.I'm planning to rush to cons 4 for research skulls and then - to conj8/cons8 with some minor research in other fields to make phoenix a bit more effective.

1. The current build assumes also o3s1h3d1L0M3 dom4 a4f4e4 phoenix, or
2. alternate o3s1h3d1L1M1 dome 3 with adding a4f4e4W4 to phoenix.
3. The third one in consideration is just F4A4 phoenix with all other points invested into magic and growth.

The question why I asked why E2, is very high cost of a new path for phoenix, and if you take E2 it's quite tempting to take E4.

I'm not planning buying a lot of sacred units, but bless could be useful for summons, and site searching would also be a dream.

What would be your thoughts, for EA Ctis? I didn't sleep well yesterday. Too much of mind infection from this game

[pyg]

Originally Posted by militarist

Thanks,chrispedersen's but what's "Having e2 can be useful. "?

Summon Earthpower.

[Psycho]

I think that when using phoenix pretender for expansion, you want him to explode and kill indies that way, so you shouldn't cast spells with him in order to acquire fatigue slower. But he can only take on weaker provinces.

With EA Ctis I'd take S and E on my pretender, since that's what they lack. You can do for example a dormant mother of rivers (or whatever she's called - the W2 titan pretender) with W9S5E3 and expand using sacreds who are really nice with a W9 bless. Chariots are also nice and you can expand with just them, although a bit slower in the start, not needing an awake pretender or bless, so you can spend the points better.

[militarist]

Psycho, I agree that fatigue should be spent on in-battle rebirth rather then spell casting,that's why I hold xx and attack. As for bless - I would support this idea if they had no chariots, which are very good, plus I just want some diversity - I play several games, and in many with strong bless, but there nations are bless nations.

The only thing I'm strongly disagree - "But he can only take on weaker provinces." When you are expanding solo, your biggest problem is not death of pretender (which can be avoided by avoiding heavy cavalry, dark vines, etc), but getting affictions. And here immortal pretender is much safer. Especially when you strategically need to get some heavy protected privince. Phoenix is the only pretender you can use in early game to soften it.

The situation when Phoenix is not the best - on medium provinces, where he can loose extra turn, and provinces with no friendly dominion, which still could be taken by stronger pretender, especially with awe.

But really, for the price of phoenix without real need to get high dominion to get those expensive AWEs you will not find anything even close by effect.

[Fantomen]

I use awake Phoenix sometimes. I found that putting death 5 or more on it makes a lot of sense.

1. You get fear/awe innate combo, which makes it last much longer in melee. (remember CBM phoenix has awe even without high dom, awe +3 with dom 10)
2. You can script frighten after airshield from turn 1, in combination with fear that makes the indies rout after fewer explosions. I found this makes a key difference in expansion.
3. You get soulvortex/phoenix pyre combo in midgame, as addition to mistform, fire shield etc. That makes it a powerful defensive grenade in dominion and lets him stay on cast spells without fatiguing out.
4. A cloud trapezing immortal with high death, air and fire isn't the worst support in lategame, not to speak of just having powerful death access.

If I put on any equipment it would be a ring of regen to keep afflictions down, perhaps horror helmet for extra fear and some ring of appropriate resistance. But I never do that until I have soul vortex so my phoenix actually survives most battles.

[Jarkko]

Ooooh! Never thought of D5 and soul-vortex on Phoenix. Now *that* does sound nasty! Does the vortex hold through phoenix explosions too?

[militarist]

Yes, vortex idea sounds nasty, a lot of synergy with need of fatigue recovery for explosions.

[rdonj]

Yeah, it'll hold. The phoenix will keep dying, draining life and coming back as long as the fatigue doesn't get too high. So they can be made pretty nasty.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

Ooooh! Never thought of D5 and soul-vortex on Phoenix. Now *that* does sound nasty! Does the vortex hold through phoenix explosions too?

It does. But d5+(for fear and also to keep fatigue from SV buffing low) and mistform is cruical here, since you really need to last long enough to suck up enough fatigue after each death. D3 isn't enough.

A particulary nasty script I found is:
mistform/soul vortex/drain life x2(drops buffing fatigue back to 0 or close)/attack/cast spells

You'll pick up drain life on your way to soul vortex anyway.