MP: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Completed- Victor: Atlantis

[Eximius Sus]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Well on AVERAGE (not every player maybe)
Solo game is when you do lots of just dropping the game when things go wrong to start a new one and try it different. At first it might be 2 turns in, then 5, then 10. Finally you feel like you have a nation and a build that works for you. Eventually even one that regularly lets you win the game. It would take an unusual game player in my opinion to be jump straight into multiplayer dom3 and be willing to stay in the game after what you feel is a catastrophic loss.

Whats interesting is how many of these games Ive seen those human-turned-AI players continue to kick tail and even win games. When the AI can play a players nation better than the player, that would tend to show a lack of time in solo play. Thats why Ive started adding a "cant turn AI" lock on many of my newbie games.

This is very bizarre logic. If SP teaches you to give up whenever things get tough and just start again, more SP experience would seem to result in MORE quitters. Less SP experience might just teach you to play through the game since you can't just reload.

And the other obvious conclusion is why the hell play MP if you end up killing AI's. You can do that in SP at 40 turns a day instead of wasting months to find out you are just fighting the AI. Sounds like a phenomenal waste of time to me.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im saying solo teaches you that. Im saying it gets it out of your system.

I know I tried and dumped alot of nations early on before I found one I was comfortable with. Id hate to have tried them in mp first.

[Eximius Sus]

Sounds a lot like practicing the piano solo and quitting whenever you find it hard is good training for performance.

[Gandalf Parker]

I wouldnt say that.
If you are going to compare it to instruments then Id compare it to all instruments. I wouldnt recommend jumping into professional training right away. Its best to mess around abit with each instrument and get a feel for which one you want to stick with.

Jumping into MP in Dom3 chances getting trashed with a dozen nations and giving up, never figuring out that nation 28 is your best one.

[Corvus]

I don't see whats the problem here, all he said is play around with nations in single player to get a feel for which one you like before jumping into a long *** multi-player game with no clue what you're doing.

[Verjigorm]

Well, I'll just say that I pick my races either thematically or randomly and I use SP to develop strategies. I rarely finish any SP game even with a nation that I like. One can generally tell if a particular strategy is viable long before the game finishes.

Therefore, finishing SP games is not a requirement for finishing MP games.. I use it for testing purposes only since I find the AIs boring.

[Gandalf Parker]

Heehee. Even I rarely finish solo games.
I do feel I have progressed beyond "quit at first loss" due to gaining confidence in solo play.

Im just saying that quit-at-first-loss is not unusual for new players whether they start in solo or mp. So recommending people jump into mp means no one should be surprised at alot of early AIs

[Eximius Sus]

Problem? It's not a problem.

It's just that there is a very strange logic to the idea that practicing quitting lots makes you more resistant to not quitting. How is that supposed to work?

People are habitual. If they learn the habit of quitting when things get tough they will continue it. So playing lots of SP and quitting should result in more quitting. Not less. That's my problem with the suggestions listed here.

[Verjigorm]

I agree with Eximius generally. A game started under the premise that you have chosen to play it with others means that you will continue to play or find a suitable replacement for yourself if unable requires the virtue of Honor and nothing more.

No amount of practice in SP can grant you Honor. You have to take it for yourself.

A player who quits because he gets upset, bored, tired, etc., is either dishonorable or undisciplined to the point where virtue is irrelevant as the person has not the capacity to understand its purpose.

All important real-life events are exempted, of course since Dom3 is just a game.

[Septimius Severus]

Valid points on both sides of the argument I think.

There's alot of reasons why players may quit, drop, or otherwise disappear early. And while I agree with Gandalf that noobs may be generally less disciplined than veterans and thus more inclined to drop when the going gets tough or they get bored or busy, personal commitment, honor, and concern for the other players in the game, also plays an important role as Verjigorm noted.