Bob the Vastness..... Dead to rights?

[chrispedersen]

I dont believe that the attackers defenses matter - I think it is just a straightline damage applied. Sympathetic magic - you hit me for 20 damage - so if you fail the mr you take the damage.

Seems in keeping with the name of the spell and description.

I did a fair bit of testing with FFA's. I could still find no real way to make BV interesting. There aren't enough items or spells that add to BV to make it interesting - as in you can't get a high enough BV value (combined with hp and regen) to make it a viable strategy.

Although I would ask the original poster if it occured in a +magic or -magic province, where the penalty or bonus to the save might have made a difference.

[Kadelake]

Originally Posted by thejeff

When BV triggered, the Skratti casting Frozen Heart took the damage, despite being cold immune.

Interesting. You got me motivated enough to do some more testing even though I don't have the time

I can confirm that elemental damage is not returned through BV. (I tested with springhawks, lightning immune and lightning attack.)

I also tested BV, BE and mistform together. Turns out that after damage has been dealt (penetrated the target's protection), they are checked in that order: BV -> BE -> mistform. If the first one fails to negate the damage, it goes on to the second one and so on.

That means that the combination BV, BE and mistform can be effective. A Dakini with Robe of Shadows would be really fearsome against mundane weapons
But attackers with magical weapons should make short work of that strategy.

[Finalgenesis]

I see! BE check coming in after BV is surprising and very interesting, and means vastness is better then it looks as it's already ethereal (prot 0, BV +2). I wonder if luck also comes after BV check, I may have to test later today. Did you find the sequence in the log using -ddd?

I was infinitely curious in the order of buff checks (luck, BE, fire/astral shield, eye/vine shield, BV ...etc) for effective buffing, this definitely is good data.

[chrispedersen]

there was a thread where someone tested order of attacks / defenses applied.

[Finalgenesis]

My search-fu is still weak then, I'll look further thanks

[sansanjuan]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

I dont believe that the attackers defenses matter - I think it is just a straightline damage applied. Sympathetic magic - you hit me for 20 damage - so if you fail the mr you take the damage.

Seems in keeping with the name of the spell and description.

I did a fair bit of testing with FFA's. I could still find no real way to make BV interesting. There aren't enough items or spells that add to BV to make it interesting - as in you can't get a high enough BV value (combined with hp and regen) to make it a viable strategy.

Although I would ask the original poster if it occured in a +magic or -magic province, where the penalty or bonus to the save might have made a difference.

cp
I believe it was a magic+1 prov. There seems to be some interest in the subject so I've attached the debug -ddd if someone needs some light reading.
-ssj

On another note I did see in the debug that game mechanics do try to account for friendly fire (though it doesn't always seem so)


...
rightplayer teamhp 2345 max 2830
Mrlreport (right): good179 broken35 autobreak0 turn10
Removing flyatt order for 25 Phantasmal Wolf (2105 335250)
Too high friendly fire for Adept of the Silver Order (unit228 snr-1)

[Kadelake]

Originally Posted by Finalgenesis

I see! BE check coming in after BV is surprising and very interesting, and means vastness is better then it looks as it's already ethereal (prot 0, BV +2). I wonder if luck also comes after BV check, I may have to test later today. Did you find the sequence in the log using -ddd?

I found it in the log using -dd. What is the difference between -dd and -ddd?

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

there was a thread where someone tested order of attacks / defenses applied.

That info would be great! Do you remember anything that might help us find it? Like who posted the tests?