French OOB

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I probably should see a Dr. as I can't even read a book without reading a passage and it coming back to a topic in the Forum.
The topic French flamethrowers. The result after many hours on the net have also been posted here, basically couldn't find anything except WW I use. So I read this book changed my search perimeters around it and what I read and guess what? Yeah, you guessed it of course they had them and it looks like from 1943 with the Free French units until possibly 1980 when France among others signed a treaty banning their use, see ref below. So for now I can say the French used the U.S. M2 Flamethrower when it also become available from 1943 - 1960 for sure.
The book HELL IN A VERY SMALL PLACE THE SIEGE OF DIEN BIEN PHU by Bernard Fall 1966. First mentioned them on Pg. 79 2nd full Para. "On February 6, Lt. Col. Langlais and GAP 2, the 2nd BT, the 1st Battalion of the 4th Moroccan Infantry, a Foreign Legion flamethrower detachment, and a platoon with explosive charges from the 31st Engineering Battalion assaulted the highest mountain in the immediate vicinity of Dien Bien Phu-Hill 754-781."

Also the book will have me looking into the U.S. 155mm and the
M24 CHAFFEE tanks the French used in Indochina and was thus available to the French Army. And a Battery was made up of four guns at that time in regards to the 105mm or 155mm if this needs a quick looking at in the OOB.

While I'm at it this is my plan for the 105mm: 1. Contact in writing Ft. Sill home to the USA Artillery School seeking their help and 2. I had an idea at work, what would happen if I searched using French? I'll try it. Regardless I have three dates in mind to purpose based I what I've been able to pull together on this thus far for the next Patch.

So far PITA is still a flat bread...so far!!
Note the last sentence of the ref. in regards to other countries, more issues?. This is represenative of a handful of others found.
http://christopher-eger.suite101.com...thrower-a73015

Anyway I hope you all have a great weekend and I need to hit the rack-one more to go!!

Regards,
Pat

[TonyE]

The 105mm M101 was mostly out of service with the french army by the early 1990s, it was retained for several more years (up until late 1990s max) as a stored pre-position weapon for intervention forces in several french bases in Africa + some for instructional use in France as long as remaining ammo stocks lasted. I know that the french marines had a mixed battery of 155mm BF50 and 105mm M101 in use in Djibouti in 1995 but 120mm mortars soon became plentifull due to french army downsizing.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I had thrown out the mid nineties also in Africa thinking it was the Legion though. I have a "feeler" out to Ft. Sill that I hope leads to an answer. But the UK's Royal Artillery Museum thought they were pulled sooner, I believe I posted that email in here. So I and on behave of Don as well, welcome you to our PITA on this topic.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I *thought* I had all French 105's ending 12/94 as a "best guess" but I see now one unit is 12/94, one is 12/65 and one is 12/2020 so I suspect I only hit the save button after the first change. However there are picklist implicates that need to be investigated as well but "mid 90's " seems to be safe though typically we get "better" info a week after a patch is released......


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I've just checked my email and got my answer from Ft. Sill. First I'll post my reply from the British Royal Artillery Museum again. I think I could really use the help of our French contributors out there, take a trip to Paris and go the main Military Museum and please ask someone there for me concerning the use of the 105mm field howitzer. Well I've got to 2021 I guess, I still feel that 1995-1997 is the best answer during Frances involvement in Africa during mid 1990s. A photo search is in order along with a couple of cards still up my sleeve.

From the Royal Artillery Library, Woolwich‏
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5/08/12 Reply ▼Reply
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Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museum Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museumpaule@firepower.org.uk
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From: Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museum (paule@firepower.org.uk)
Sent: Tue 5/08/12 9:17 AM
To: patrickjconklin@

Ref. May.39
8th May 2012

Dear Mr Conklin

Thank you for your recent communication.

I’m afraid our holdings on French artillery aren’t as comprehensive as you would wish.

The 105mm Mk61 SP Howitzer on an AMX13 light tank chassis was taken into service in 1958 after ten years of making do with the Second World War vintage towed variant. By 1990 these had been reduced to Reserve use only.

The 1989-1990 edition of Jane’s Armour & Artillery states “During the mid to late 1960s GIAT developed the prototype of a 105mm light gun known as the Canon 105LTR. The prototype was not developed further but with the formation of the French Rapid Reaction Force (FAR) there arose the need for replacement of the French Army’s existing 105mm M101 and 105mm Model 56 Pack Howitzers. The Canon 105 LTR was revived for a while during the mid 1980s but has now been replaced with an updated model known as the LG1. The 105mm LG1 Light gun was a private venture developed by GIAT’s Etablissement d’Etudes et de Fabrications d’Armement de Bourges. By early 1987 three prototypes had been produced and these were followed by three pre-production weapons. As of May 1989 no firm orders for the GAIT 105mm LG1 Light gun had been placed.”

The 1999-2000 edition of Jane’s Armour & Artillery expands to include “Late in 1990, following a competition between GIAT Industries with the 105mm LG1 Light Gun and Royal Ordnance of the UK with their 105mm Light Gun, Singapore placed an order for 37 of the 105mm LG1 Light gun. Early in 1994, Indonesia placed a firm order for 20 105mm LG1 Mk II Light guns. In June 1994 the Canadians placed an order for 28 and in 1995 the Belgian Army ordered 14.


I hope this is of some assistance. I should add that as an independent museum we are dependent on visitor income and charges for research enquiries in order to support our facilities. Although there will be no charge for answering this enquiry, a donation is always welcome. Those wishing to make a donation should send a cheque made out to ‘Royal Artillery Museums Ltd’, and send it to the Historical Secretary, The Royal Artillery Museum, Royal Arsenal (West), Warren Lane, Woolwich, London SE18 6ST. Or if it’s easier you can visit www.justgiving.com/firepower/donate and we would ask you title your donation “Because of the Library”

Yours sincerely

Paul Evans

Librarian

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Full view||Back to messagesFrench M101s (UNCLASSIFIED)‏
12/03/12 Reply ▼Reply
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Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US) Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US)gordon.a.blaker.civ@mail.mil
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From: Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US) (gordon.a.blaker.civ@mail.mil)
Sent: Mon 12/03/12 4:34 PM
To: patrickjconklin@ (patrickjconklin@)


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Greetings,

Sorry, I've gotten nothing on French use of those 105mm howitzers. My best suggestion is Jane’s Armour and Artillery which I have found is about the best source for determining who was using what when. It makes sense that the Marines and FFL would be the last to use them. One possibility for leads might be Michael Franz who edited the Tankograd TM on the 105. I've no idea how to contact him. Also, members of the European branches of the Military Vehicle Preservation Association might have some leads.

Best of luck I know the feeling I’m trying to figure out how to adjust track tension of a WWII German Hummel,

Gordon Blaker

Director/Curator

US Army Artillery Museum

Fort Sill, OK


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Well I've always said this was a PITA. Now however, let's just say "It's my PITA and Windmill!?!"

Have a Great Day everyone! I NEED SOME SLEEP!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
FYI (And others of course.), I hope to end the madness here with this 105mm issue, well hopefully anyway. I've finally had the time to throw that "Hail Mary". I've contacted Mr. Lovett from the below site and will await his answer one way or another. Depending on the outcome I think I'm done chasing this one for awhile, besides I never did to play the game once this past year, how do you restart a generated campaign!?! Only kidding!! Though it's pretty bad when CINCLANTHOME even took notice of that!?! Anyway I know you've settled on a date for the upcoming Patch and as you know I feel it's the best we're going to get based on the feedback already provided. No need to reply.
Hope you all have a great week!
http://www.lovettartillery.com/index.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
The "Hail Mary" on my part has been thrown to try to lock down or at least firm up the end that I know you'll be using for the French 105mm howitzers in the upcoming patch. I have earlier contacted Mr. R. Lovett from the below website. Will post the results one way or another. I think I'll be done with this PITA pending the reply back should I get one. Tried the French one last time but like the first time I did that, I'm not going to hold my breath on getting any answer. There was a time CINCLANTHOME would wonder why I played the game so often (Boy was that a long time ago!!) so you know it's bad when the comment now is why it's been a year since I played it!?! Though of course she took my situation of the last few months into account. Anyway we'll see what happens and in the mean time, can anyone tell how to restart a generated campaign!?! I kid you...though seriously...anyway have a great week!!
No reply needed.
http://www.lovettartillery.com/index.html


Regards,
Pat


Just saw the above, and on my computer it looked like I lost that one after trying to refresh the site. Must have caught the site in a maintenance mode- SORRY!

[DRG]

Pat. I've taken them OOS 12/96 but if you find better info I'll use it

Don

[Urban]

Maybe it could help

For the 50's to 90's era
Infantry
http://daniel.rabbe.free.fr/organisation/section.htm

Armor
http://daniel.rabbe.free.fr/organisation/peloton.htm

I have TTA document from 1999 just need to make the transfert from my old computer
Section d'infanterie (Infantry platoon)
Section d'appuie (Support platoon)
Section Recon Regimentaire (Regimental Recon Platoon)
+ other doc about AMX10, Leclerc regiments