Soviet 00B 11 Corrections/Suggestions

[Cross]

1. Soviet PTAB bomblets (weapon 249) currently have a penetration of 80cm
The sources I looked at say 60-70mm, but perhaps someone was trying to enter 80mm.

2. The Soviet lend-lease Hurricane has a Yugoslavian roundel (unit 409, icon 911)

[Rosollia]

In the Soviet oob there are BT-7 and T-26 tanks that have the 7.62mm DT BMG weapon. However none of these tanks had a bow machine gun. These tanks did sometimes have a turret rear facing machine gun and I suspect the BMG might be there to simulate it. But simulating it is a bit problematic in a game like Steel Panthers. Would the tank fire its main gun and co-axial and then turn aroud its turret to shoot with the turret rear machine gun? Many BT-7 and T-26 tanks did however have an AAMG.

Would replacing the BMG with an AAMG for the following units be a good idea?

Unit 002 "BT-7 M1937"
Unit 004 "T-26 M1933s"
Unit 101 "BT-7M"
Unit 181 "BT-7 M1935"
Unit 337 "T-26 M1937s"
Unit 338 "T-26 M1939"
Unit 555 "BT-7M"
Unit 845 "BT-7M"

A small addition:
Units 004 "T-26 M1933s" and 224 "T-26 M1933" could use unit picture "27842" since these are the earlier T-26 models with the cylindrical turret.

Online sources:
http://www.o5m6.de/RussianArmour.html
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...soviet_T26.php
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/galleries.htm

[Rosollia]

OT-130-133 Flamethrower tanks:

Unit 010 "OT-133"
-Correct unit picture is "27825"

Unit 594 "OT-130"
-Correct unit picture is "27839"

Unit 595 "OT-131" & Unit 596 "OT-132"
Never heard of OT-131 or OT-132...
They seem to differ from OT-130 and OT-133 in lower weight, weaker armor and larger ammo count.
Ofcourse removing these units would be problematic since there are probably scenarios that use them.

We still have four OT tanks that are quite similar to eachother.

[Rosollia]

No uparmored T-26 in the Soviet OOB? Many T-26s were uparmored following the Winter war and saw action in the Easter front against the Germans and Finns in 1941.

An uparmored T-26 could use unit picture 27847 and have an increased front hull and turret armor. Speed would be reduced.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Rosollia

OT-130-133 Flamethrower tanks:



Unit 595 "OT-131" & Unit 596 "OT-132"
Never heard of OT-131 or OT-132....

QUOTE >> " The OT-133 flame-throwing tank was developed in the USSR In 1939. It was a result of further updating of the OT-131 and OT-132 flame-throwing tanks which were created on the basis of the T-26 tank (with a conic turret), the version of 1937-1939. Tank was armed with a flame-thrower, the version of 1938, and had one or two 7.62mm MG."

And this..

Based on T-26-1

Produced: OT-131/132 - a few vehicles,
OT-133 - 182 vehicles,


There, now you've heard of them.

Whether the differences shown in the game between the four are 100% accurate. IDK. I can tell you they have been in the OOB's like for at least 9 years.

They didn't make many of them but we added them anyway. When we don't....someone complains.....when we do.....someone complains

Don

[Rosollia]

Ok, thank you for the information. They were most likely development tanks in between OT-130 and OT-133. Probably just one or two made.

Btw. There were also two OT-134 tanks produced based on T-26 m1939 that had the flamethrower in the hull and retained the 45mm tank gun in the turret.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaw...-26/OT-134.htm

[Rosollia]

about T-26 m1931

Currently we have only unit "222" representing this tank model with a 7.62mm and 12.7mm machine gun arnament. I am not doubting the existance of this arnament on a T-26 model 1931, but I do believe it was rare. There were many experiments with different arnaments on T-26 tanks, but most did not reach full scale production.

We are missing the most produced version with two 7.62mm machine guns (about 1000 produced). And the second most produced version with a 7.62mm machine gun in one turret and 37mm PS-1 (12 - 37mm PP obr 15R?) gun in second turret (about 500 made).

[Rosollia]

Units 439, 445, 611: DS-39 MMG
Currently available from June 1939 to June 1940.

Around 200 of these guns were captured from Soviet troops by Finns in 1941- so the weapon was still in use at that time. Also I have seen photos of German troops using captured DS-39 mahcine guns.
I would extend the end availability date to perhaps December 1941 ?

Regarding the star availability date:
In Finnish literature I have only seen the Maxim machinegun listed as in use by Soviet infantry in Winterwar. Also in the Jaeger Platoon website there is a mention of the production of DS-39.
"Tula Arsenal was the only manufacturer of DS-39 machinegun, it manufactured 10,345 of them between June of 1940 and June of 1941. From those 10,345 machineguns it made 6,628 in year 1940 and 3,717 in year 1941."
So perhaps the start date should be June 1940 instead of June 1939?

Online sources:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MG2.htm#762KK39
http://world.guns.ru/machine/rus/ds-39-e.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DS-39

[Pibwl]

Most important issues, plus some simple picture changes.
Info on lend-lease tanks (sometimes making a significant difference in availability) is based upon Mikhail Barytaynski "Tanki lend-leasa w boyu" (L-L tanks in action). Rest is based upon Russian authors as well.


009 M3A1 Stuart, 313 M3 Stuart, 528 M3A1 Stuart - in Russia they were known as M3L (L for lyogkiy = light), with no model distinction between M3 and M3A1.
First M3 were delivered only in 1/42 (now 8/41 for unit 313). In some frontline units they were retained until 1945 (last date: 12/43 for #528).
They had original .30 AAMG Brownings only (now: DT) - at least on some photos they have AAMG confirmed.

Needs change in formations #210, 211 - now earliest would be Valentine in 10/41 (actually should be 11/41 - see unit 028 below)


016 M3 Lee, 030 M3A3 Lee, 538 M3A3 Lee - in Russia they were known as M3s (S or s for stredniy = medium). Name Lee was unknown in Russia, but might be kept for a sake of convenience (Stuart and Sherman names weren't used in documents as well).

According to Russian and some other sources, only M3 variant was shipped to USSR. But early tanks delivered had short M2 75 mm gun, while later tanks had M3 gun, so M3A3 could be chaned to M3-gun M3s. Speed of all should be therefore 12-13.

According to the mentioned book, they weren't available before 2/42 (now: 11/41). And they took part in Kursk battle in 7/43 (with both M2 and M3 guns) - some even were used until mid-1944 (now they end at 4/43).


017 T-28 M1932 - proper picture for KT-28 short gun variant is 27816. Picture 0076 is a late screened variant (T-28E).

018 M4A3 (76) - there were no M4A3 delivered, only M4A2 (not counting two M4A4). It should be renamed to M4A2(76).

If they had AAMG, it was definitely original .50 Browning - it concerns all Soviet Shermans.

019 M4A2 - early Shermans were delivered since 11/42 (now: 1/44) - say, 1/43 to make them ready. From 1944 they were mass-delivered.

021, 651 T-35 M1938 - this version is known in Russian sources rather as M1939 (vypusk 1939 goda).
Production started in 1938, but the first were completed in 2/39 (now: 7/38). Only 6 of this variant were made - very rare.
According to books by M. Svirin and M. Kolomiets, this last series, with conical turrets, had armour increased to 70mm front (hull only? - no specific info) and 25 mm sides.

For sure they still had short KT-28 guns, not L-10 (45mm guns were considered as their anti-tank weapon).
They could be fitted with some AP ammo for 76 mm gun, though - normally they had HE and shrapnel, but Kolomiets writes, that "in case of need, their guns could use AP ammo".


028 Valentine III - it's a matter of months, but first appeared in units in 11/41 (now 10/41) - first Western tanks arrived by ship on 11 Oct.41. Would need change in formations #210, 211.


029 Churchill IV - they were received already in 7/42 (now 6/43) - first used in Stalingrad (autumn 1942).

040 GAZ-AA-37 - proper pic is 29355 or 27520

048 45mm L66 AT-Gun - proper picture for long barrel 45 mm is 29366

088 SU-57 - proper pic is 29389 - current one shows probably US 105mm SP-howitzer.

120 Matilda II - used in units until summer 1944 (now 12/42)

180, 650 T-35 M1935 - only the 1st prototype of T-35 had 37mm guns, all production tanks had 45mm guns (however, it was impossible to shoot with both guns at one target...).

It was the basic T-35 model, used until autumn of 1941 (now 6/38).
First date 4/35 might be retained, though first few tanks were available on parade in 11/34 (or even before) (the first ones weren't too reliable)

Better picture for basic model is 27819 (077 is late model with conical turrets)

They could be given some AP ammo for main gun - see T-35 M1938 above.


290 KV-1 Ekranami - correct form is KV-1 s ekranami (=with screens), but they are commonly known just as KV-1E

302, 339 T-27, 593 OT-27 - proper pic is 27801, current one shows Carden-Loyd

309 LT Mk VII - delivered in 1942, but moved to front in 1/43 (6/42). Might be changed or not.

334 T-38 - picture shows T-37, proper is 23076


314 Valentine IX - Valentines (also 2pdr) were used until the end of war, especially in cavalry and motorcycle units (as a support) - and the Soviets were very fond of them (now ends at 6/43)

539 Valentine VII - as above - now ends at 12/43.

592 OT-26 - it was the first variant of a flamethrower tank, produced since 1932, used since 1/33 at least (now 1/39).

It should have a coaxial DT CMG.
It had 360 litres of mixture (I don't know if there's any ratio in the game to establish number of shots) - it could fire 70 x 1-second bursts 5-litres each

Needs date change in formation 11.

594 OT-130 - it had also 360 litres of mixture, but could fire 40 x 1-sec. bursts of 9 l. (difference comes from a slightly longer range) (unit 010 OT-133 should have the same flamethrower specs, as OT-130)

595 OT-131 - it was in fact a variant with a flamethrower and 45mm gun, but it remained a prototype (as somebody mentioned before). Besides, developed in 1939 (now 9/35)

596 OT-132 - it was not produced, but it became a prototype for OT-133. Besides, it was developed in 1939 and a proper pic is 27839 or 27824.


672 Faustnikami - correct form is Faustniki (plural noun, Faustnikami is a declination)

That's all for this season. Hope this info helps.

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

One more error:

222 T-26 M1931 - DShK is wrong armament. Apart from some tanks with short-barrel 37mm Hotchkiss gun, twin-turret tanks were armed with two 7.62mm MGs only (not to mention, that DShK was developed in 1938).

Michal