Buttoned And Unbuttoned Option

[Turret]

Would it be possible to add a selectable buttoned and unbuttoned option? The buttoned option might be more protective against close assault, and the unbuttoned option giving more vision.

[DRG]

The game already does that automatically

[Turret]

I'd like both. The auto-button feature, and a manual mode, settable by the user.

[DRG]

No, for the same reason we aren't going to allow the player to select the ammo type

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by Turret

The buttoned option might be more protective against close assault

Actually, currently in game being buttoned up makes a vehicle more vulnerable to assault. This is actually quite realistic, since a buttoned up crew has quite limited view of their immediate surroundings, allowing a brave infantryman to sneak unnoticed close enough to place a satchel charge to a vulnerable spot.

[jivemi]

Pardon the off-topic, but speaking of unbuttoned ("ready") stationary tanks, was their spotting ability much less than similarly situated infantry? Just wondering if a tank commander's view of the battlefield would be all that different from a squad leader's. Thanks.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by jivemi

Pardon the off-topic, but speaking of unbuttoned ("ready") stationary tanks, was their spotting ability much less than similarly situated infantry? Just wondering if a tank commander's view of the battlefield would be all that different from a squad leader's. Thanks.

Infantry on foot spot better than tanks. APC + loaded grunts spot better than a plain tank, as does a tank + tank riders.

The more hexes you have moved, the worse your spotting becomes. The more suppressed, ditto.

Andy

[Brian61]

Originally Posted by Griefbringer

Actually, currently in game being buttoned up makes a vehicle more vulnerable to assault. This is actually quite realistic, since a buttoned up crew has quite limited view of their immediate surroundings, allowing a brave infantryman to sneak unnoticed close enough to place a satchel charge to a vulnerable spot.

While this sounds all good at first glance, in game the actual effect leads to non historic results. That is, with the mechanic of having the target's spotting ability a factor in the success of a close assault causes close assault to be the only attack in game whose chances to hit improve with the target's speed.

This is quite wrong, contrary to common sense, and contrary to training and practice of armor maneuver in WWII. For example, following established German practice of accelerating out of smoke/cover and crossing open terrain at high speed has the in game result of being more hazardous rather than less hazardous.

Largely because of this, the use of historically incorrect tactics and TOE's (infantry leading through open terrain - skipping overwatch due to ineffectiveness - suicidal tank riders in front lines - inverse ratio of infantry to armor in armor maneuver units etc) is the optimal approach in game.

I really wish there was either a checkbox somewhere to disconnect the target's spotting ability from the close assault equation or a percentage control adjusting close assault chances somewhere in either preferences or an ini file.

So while I don't see any utility to a button/unbutton control, I'd give my left testicle for some control over close assault chances.

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by Brian61

While this sounds all good at first glance, in game the actual effect leads to non historic results. That is, with the mechanic of having the target's spotting ability a factor in the success of a close assault causes close assault to be the only attack in game whose chances to hit improve with the target's speed.

Largely because of this, the use of historically incorrect tactics and TOE's (infantry leading through open terrain - skipping overwatch due to ineffectiveness - suicidal tank riders in front lines - inverse ratio of infantry to armor in armor maneuver units etc) is the optimal approach in game.

I really wish there was either a checkbox somewhere to disconnect the target's spotting ability from the close assault equation or a percentage control adjusting close assault chances somewhere in either preferences or an ini file.

So while I don't see any utility to a button/unbutton control, I'd give my left testicle for some control over close assault chances.

Well, you are right that it is a problem. While tank riders are not entirely ahistorical (especially in the Eastern Front) and overwatch is still useful against enemy AT guns and tanks, high speed vehicles really should be less vulnerable to close assaults by infantry. I don't know how difficult the decoupling of spotting ability from close assault success probability would be, but it would certainly be something worth looking into in my opinion.

Another possible way of handling it would be to strongly decrease the close assault success probability with increasing vehicle speed so that it would compensate for the decreasing spotting ability. This method would preserve the fact that buttoned-up vehicles really were easier to surprise by close assaults.

[Mobhack]

Eh? - who said anywhere that vehicle speed had anything to do with the chance of a close assault success?

If you blunder into unspotted infantry then it does not matter what speed you are going at.

It's infantry that have moved that have less chance of a close assault success. If you move a rifle section 2 hexes and then try to assault a passing tank, it will be at a much reduced rate than if it had ended up alongside the grunts.

A closed down vehicle is a little easier to assault as it is unaware. A fast-moving vehicle is not a closed down vehicle unless somebody hosed it with MG fire or whatever.

Andy