Specific vs common sensors ?

[tbontob]

This is a question for the pros...

This is what I am given to understand:

-Some ships must have a specific sensor installed in order to benefit from it. I believe combat sensors and multiplex tracking would fall into this Category.

-But apparently some sensors do not need to be installed on all ships as the ships without it can benefit from the ships in the fleet that do have it. In most cases, it would be needless to install this component on every ship.

Here is a list (complete, I hope) of the various sensors available as components.

Combat Sensors
ECM
Gravitic Sensors
Hyper Optics
Long Range Scanners
Multiplex Tracking
Neural Combat Net
Psychic Receptors
Scanner Jammer
Tachyon Sensors
Temporal Sensors

Can anyone tell me which is which?
I'm really in the dark on this!

[Baron Munchausen]

Neural Combat net is NOT a sensor. It 'transmits' combat experience between all of your ships in a given combat event that have the component, making them all fight at the highest level available.

Multiplex tracking is NOT a sensor. It allows your ship to fire on more than one target per combat round. That's all. But yes, it must be on each ship, and undamaged, to work.

Sensors related to CLOAKING are 'system wide' instead of per ship. Combat Sensors and ECM are per individual ship only. Long Range Sensors are a 'special case' because you have to have a particular ship in range to use them, but the information is obviously 'global' once you get it by clicking on the target enemy ship. The Scanner Jammer prevents the Long Range Scanner from working.

Look at the cloaking device. There are five cloak level abilities:
1) EM Passive
2) EM Active
3) Gravitic
4) Psychic
5) Temporal

So, the five sensor types that counter-act these are the 'system level' sensors:

1) Hyper Optics
2) Tachyon Sensors
3) Gravitic Sensors
4) Psychic Receptors
5) Temporal Sensors

[ August 15, 2002, 02:54: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Fyron]

But with cloaking and tachyon-type scanners, any type of scanner will defeat any type of cloak (of appropriate cloak level, of course).

[tbontob]

I agree with you that the Neural Combat Net is really not a sensor. I only included it along with Multiplex tracking because SE4 Gold puts them in the sensor Category in its description of the various components.

I appreciate your comments on the system wide capabilities of the cloaking sensors and the counteracting “’system level’ sensors’”.

But unfortunately, it does not completely answer my question.

So, let me put the question another way.

Let’s say I was foolish enough, to build a battleship with all the “sensors” in it. And then build a cruiser with just weapons. In essence, the cruiser is ‘naked”. And further, let’s assume the sensors I have installed on the battleship are all of a higher level that the sensors of the opposing fleet. Now, to what extent does the cruiser benefit from the sensors I equipped the battleship with:

Combat Sensors – no
ECM
Gravitic Sensors
Hyper Optics
Long Range Scanners - yes
Multiplex Tracking - no
Neural Combat Net - yes
Psychic Receptors
Scanner Jammer
Tachyon Sensors
Temporal Sensors

I have answered a few from what I think you have said, but the others are still open for clarification…

[Fyron]

Combat Sensors – no
ECM - no
Multiplex Tracking - no
Neural Combat Net - yes, if they both have it
Scanner Jammer - no
Long Range Scanners - doesnt apply in combat; yes out of combat

These are all exactly the same in the un-modded game:
Psychic Receptors - doesnt apply in combat; yes out of combat
Tachyon Sensors - doesnt apply in combat; yes out of combat
Temporal Sensors - doesnt apply in combat; yes out of combat
Gravitic Sensors - doesnt apply in combat; yes out of combat
Hyper Optics - doesnt apply in combat; yes out of combat

[tbontob]

Much appreciated Fyron

So, my next question will assume the sensors are either needed or helpful. For example, you wouldn’t install combat sensors if your ship only had missiles for weaponry.

If one wanted to build an efficient fleet, would it would look something like this?
-Each ship would have
---1) a combat sensors for certain weapons (ie direct fire)
---2) multiplex tracking (if it has one or more weapons)
---3) the neural combat net.
---4) the scanner jammer.
-At least one of the ships in the fleet would have
---1) the long range scanner
---2) one of the sensors (psychic, tachyon, temporal, gravitic, hyper-optics) to
-------a) penetrate the cloak of the opposing fleet and/or
-------b) cloak our fleet

Would this be a fair assessment?

[tbontob]

Oops

The phrase
---2) multiplex tracking (if it has one or more weapons)

should be

---2) multiplex tracking (if the ship in the fleet has two or more weapons)

[Fyron]

Hit the Edit Post button.

-Each ship would have
---1) a combat sensors for certain weapons (ie direct fire)
Point Defense Cannons can be affected by combat sensors. If the enemy uses fighters, it is a good idea to put CS on any ship with PDCs.

---2) multiplex tracking (if it has one or more weapons)
Useless if the ship only has 1 weapon. Generally, these aren't that useful unless the ship uses weapons that need to target different ships (Allegience Subverters, Ionic Disrupters), or it has a lot of weapons (probably at least 5).

---3) the neural combat net.
This is only useful if you have one or more ships with much more than 20 experience. You can train your ships up to 20. If all of your ships are at 20, and none are higher, these have no effect. You need at least 1 ship with high experience to get any benefit. Otherwise, the 30 KT are wasted.

---4) the scanner jammer.
Generally, it doesn't matter if the enemy can see what is on your ship. Cargo-carrying ships can make good use of these though. Consider using Scattering Armor. It's defense bonus stacks with ECM, and it provides scanner jamming.

-At least one of the ships in the fleet would have
---1) the long range scanner

---2) one of the sensors (psychic, tachyon, temporal, gravitic, hyper-optics) to
-------a) penetrate the cloak of the opposing fleet and/or
Correct.

-------b) cloak our fleet
No. You need either Stealth Armor or a Cloaking Device on each ship to cloak the fleet. Scanners only defeat enemy cloaks, not cloak your own ships.

[dogscoff]

And ECM - that was mentioned earlier. Each ship that you want to make hard to hit should have an ECM.

[tbontob]

Mucho Gracias Fyron

I was using “efficient” in the sense that each ship in the fleet
-a) must have (i.e. no choice) the offensive/defensive capability for which the sensor was designed for and
-b) there would be minimum redundancy in order to achieve the maximum offensive/defensive capability possible with the least expenditure.

In a real game, there is no “ must have ” requirement but trade-offs since what is most advantageous would depend upon the purpose for which the ships were designed, and ultimately, the circumstances in which they find themselves.

Basically, I wanted to determine what was theoretically possible before getting into the practicalities. Your answers were very apropos.

Now for the practicalities….
=1) you say

---4) the scanner jammer.
Generally, it doesn't matter if the enemy can see what is on your ship. Cargo-carrying ships can make good use of these though.

I understand SE4 does not use “cheats” to help the AI. If so, then it could not know the composition of a ship unless it has a effective long range scanner and without it, wouldn’t know the difference between a cruiser with weapons and a supply ship with a cruiser body (no weapons or just a pop gun). So, isn’t it of assistance to the enemy AI to determine whether a ship is a threat or not. And doesn’t our AI (in strategic mode) use it, if only to determine its priorities based on our selection of “have weapons/doesn’t have weapons” or “strongest/weakest”

I can see where the AI would find it useful for cargo ships…they would automatically flee to one of the corners.

2) You also say

-------b) cloak our fleet
No. You need either Stealth Armor or a Cloaking Device on each ship to cloak the fleet. Scanners only defeat enemy cloaks, not cloak your own ships.

Yes like scattering armor to defeat long range scanners and stealth armor to defeat level 1 active/passive scanners

Could you list the various devices which are available to cloak a ship and to defeat the probes of enemy ships?

On a totally unrelated topic, you say:

Hit the Edit Post button.

Is this in reference to my correction. If so, I can't find it...where is it?