Mine Follies

HAL · #1 January 9th, 2001, 06:59 AM

So over the weekend I started a new game. To
add a bit to the challenge, I set my homeworld up as Ice/Methane. Medium number of players in a large universe. Bought organic tech since I had never tried it.

No major problems, but the lack of good planets forces me to expand into quickly. My position rises to 3rd and then tumbles to 7th. I then stumble into the 2nd place computer player who hates me. My meager empire falls farther behind the leaders, but I manage to claw my way into 5th. I fighting continual warp point battles with the 2nd place player who is now 4X my size. Luckily, I share only one contact point. I tried to break into his system; however, I hit a heavy mine field. I fall back, but he is sending waves of ships. In desperation, I start using missile dance tactics, but the force advantage is too much. He manages to find another WP on the other side of my empire. It was looking very grim.

I decided to go for mines. I have never used mines before, but I don't see any other way. I develop mines and build my first mine layer. I spend numerous turns trying to deploy mines. I remember from SE III that I need to build them, but I can't figure it out. I become frantic, then slap myself in the head realizing that I have to design the mines. Duh!

I am still playing the game. I am out numbered and trapped in a corner. The computer is sweeping my minefields and pushing through with bigger ships. I now have gas giant colonization, but I don't know if I have enough time to reach paraity with the computer.

I believe people who complain about the AI are taking all the advantages against it. It will be interesting to see if I can turn it around.

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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Grognard · #2 January 9th, 2001, 09:19 AM

hehe

Mine mine follies.

I built a 25-mine minefield in my first game at a penetrated warp point. Ships did not seem to have much trouble getting through. Must increase the density, so the minefield is upped to 100 mines. Still no visible sign of results.

Level two warheads. Time to redesign my mines. Doh, I had not given the first mine design a warhead.

Grognard

Baron Munchausen · #3 January 9th, 2001, 05:23 PM

It is much too easy to block warp points with mines. I got sick of the same old routine of blocking with mines and building up forces while the AI wasted itself running mindlessly into the mines. I'm currently playing a game WITHOUT mines. It's so easy to just click the technology off when you start the game. This is great fun so far. Defending yourself against the AI is much more unpredictable without minefields. Unless there is a major change to mine mechanics, I think I'll be playing without mines regularly from now on.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 09 January 2001).]

dmm · #4 January 9th, 2001, 05:57 PM

I had a minelayer get "attacked" by a colony ship. Both ran to opposite corners, with the minelayer trailing mines the whole way, then making a big puddle in the corner. It looked like my minelayer ship got so scared that it peed itself.

Nyx · #5 January 9th, 2001, 06:23 PM

I like leaving mines turned on and I just don't use them myself. Attacking through minefields can be tricky, and the AI is decent about placing them. It makes things a bit mor difficult. Especially because I limit myself to having to steal mine tech to get access to mine sweepers.

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Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

HAL · #6 January 9th, 2001, 06:38 PM

This is my first use of mines in SEIV. I don't use them, but in this particular game I really don't have a choice. The computer is effectively sweeping my minefields, BTW. I think it only a matter of time before it totally over runs my position.

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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Daynarr · #7 January 9th, 2001, 06:41 PM

Well, I am trying to see how will AI handle minefields if I increase production of minesweepers in his scripts. I am still testing the changes, but from what I saw in the races files, AI just produces a low amount of mine-sweepers. It is quite possible that just by increasing its production of minesweepers it will be able to handle minefields better. It does send them to sweep mines so that is not a problem. The only question is; will he group them into fleets or not. I know for a fact that he Groups attack ships and defense ships separately and treats them separately (he usually puts defense ships in orbit of his planets or parks them in a warp point - and I really mean PARKS them

). Anyways, if he would group minesweepers like he does other ships, then the problem could be solved just by increasing minesweeper production (right now AI produces only one minesweeper at a time).

Tampa_Gamer · #8 January 9th, 2001, 07:09 PM

Daynarr - I have been attempting to test this concept with the Darloks (1.31). The AI will group carriers with the attack group, but I have yet to see Carriers + minesweepers. In my wish\list bugs thread that I sent to MM, I recommended an ON/OFF "flag" in the design file that would require the ships to be included in fleets, as a temporary cheap fix. I know the Darloks will produce at least 4-5 sweepers at a time, but I am still waiting for them to be used in fleets. . .

MoonDragn · #9 January 9th, 2001, 07:24 PM

I never believed in mines, although the computer seem to use them sometimes... I never have problems with the AI overrunning my positions. Its not hard to defeat them, dunno why I keep hearing all these AI beating people. I found the AI sometimes sits there and never sends his 20 ships grouped into my space at all... BTW I usually start the first 20 turns of my game with less than 5 ships if that, unless I meet another race. I only keep the edges of my empire guarded with ships. I also found it is stupid to build weapons platforms.They are a big waste of resources. I just build ships, lots and lots of them, the bigger the better. I found near the middle to end games, computer's intelligence attacks get rediculous, and they are too effective, and usually overrun my counter intelligence. I think that needs to be balanced a bit. I am usually tempted to just send in a star destroyer and blow up their home systems when they sabotage me.
btw, heres a trick, build about 20 ships and park them at your warp point into your empire
The computer doesn't seem to send any ships your way if there is no path to your empire. Another thing is, colonize ALL of your system's planets, even if they are just tiny ones. It seems when there is nothing to colonize the computer doesn't want to come to you at all. If you are low on resources, build ships with boarding parties that can lower the computer's shields in a hurry. Start using the computer's own ships against him. I had the warp point to my empire guarded by ONE ship with boarding capabilities, and I would constantly snag any computer's ships that came close, then the ship would be repaired and used to guard my system.
Usually by mid to end game I have warp point manipulation capability and I have made all my systems accessable within one jump. so I can mobilize my forces extreemly fast.

HAL · #10 January 9th, 2001, 07:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragn:
I never believed in mines, although the computer seem to use them sometimes... I never have problems with the AI overrunning my positions. Its not hard to defeat them, dunno why I keep hearing all these AI beating people. I found the AI sometimes sits there and never sends his 20 ships grouped into my space at all...

I haven't been as fortunate. The AI is consistently throwing mine sweepers and large fleets, 20+, at me.

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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.