Unit abstraction?

[CarlG2]

Originally posted by DimmurWyrd:
First off let me say that my overall view of games very nicely syncs with the originator of this topic hehe I also really look for the "realism" underlying the fantasy of a game.

It is somewhat funny to talk about realism when referring to a fantasy world, isn't it? I do firmly believe, though, that a well-thought out and designed fantasy or sci-fi setting will "fit together" in its own Version of "reality".

I know that whether it's a game, a book, or a movie, I always look at the underlying reality of a mythos. While I won't say that I won't enjoy a poorly designed "world", it DOES reduce my level of enjoyment. For example, let's look at the movie Underworld. Vampires rock. Werewolves are cool, too. White Wolf's World of Darkness is great (which Underworld shamelessly plagiarized). The premise of Underworld was awesome...but, the execution left me cold. Let's see...were they vampires or SpecOps guys (don't know since there didn't seem to be any difference)? And the whole 1/2 vampire, 1/2 werewolf but greater than both thing was just too lame, and a ripoff of Blade. How about Blade? No, I cannot even go there... They ruined the vampire mythos in so many ways that I can't even touch that subject (I know he's supposed to be a comic book hero, but their logic falls apart)... 1/2 man, 1/2 vampire...stronger than both? Why??? I can understand how he could tolerate sunlight, but why would he be STRONGER than a pure-blood since pure-bloods are much stronger than a human? It doesn't make sense by the rules set forth in that world's "reality".

Back to Dominions 2... I think the underlying mythos and back story that is the fabric of the game is very cool and holds most things together very well. I just have a problem with its representation of the size of military forces based on the rest of the mythos they've put together. I guess I haven't played enough to see how the other systems hold up (i.e. population, supply, etc.), but from my limited playing thus far, I get the impression that with some abstractions to how gold and supply are represented, they'd do okay with an abstraction to the number of men in a single unit (perhaps a 100 to 1 ratio, etc.) Now if I could mod the system to where full strength units do more damage than a reduced strength unit (i.e. due to casualties and thus fewer men trying to hurt other men, and on a sliding scale with cutoffs for like 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, etc., or since a computer is handling the details make it a straight percentage drop...25% fewer hit points results in 25% less damage rating for the unit), I think I'd be able to immerse myself fully. Give me then the ability to refit a unit, and thereby dilute experience and associated bonuses, etc. (but increase survivability due to replenished hit points), and I'd be in heavan.

That said I think the major reason that the ancients fielded such immense armies and the more modern such smaller ones (before industrialization) is simply that as time passed better and better armaments were developed requiring geater resources and time to manufacture leading to fewer full time soldiers.

Interestingly, the exact opposite seems to have been the case in the progression from the Bronze to the Iron age when more advanced weapons and armor became available. The armies of the Iron age dwarf those of the Bronze age (which has to do with a number of issues). However, your statement does certainly hold true for post-Roman Europe, which didn't see massive armies again until the 19th century. Not disagreeing completely, just throwing out an interesting trend between Bronze age and Iron age military forces.

I think DOM 2 represents that fairly well in some ways... for example a nice ulm plate wearing infantry is 28 gold 24 resources but a peasant with a bow and some rags on is 7 gold 3 resources hehe...

No complaint here that the production cost ratio between inexperienced cannon fodder and professional soldier is fine. I don't have a problem with ALL of Dominions 2's systems. Just the one that bugs me the most in games...

Good gaming,
Carl G.