Snipers

[Kiwikkiwik]

I had a look at world war 2 Sniping. So first, by Sniper I mean a rifle with telescope, sharpshooting over open sights is a marksman. Every Nation gets a marksman. As the sniper is the most powerful infantry unit in the game, Better than a HMG, I think it would be good to limit snipers to the countries that actually had some. As far as I can make out these countries never had any snipers.
Italian Social Republic
Polish LWP
Bulgaria
Yugoslavia
Netherlands
Greece
Nationalist Spain
Czecholovakia
Thailand
Manchuco
Vichy France
France
Chinese Communists
Norway had 3 very similar "sniper" rifles produced between the wars.
Skarpskyttergevaer m/1923
Skarpskyttergevaer m/1925
Skarpskyttergevaer m/1930
But none of these appeared to have had a telescope unless in German service as captured weapons.
Slovak Republic
Recieved some zf4 from Germany scopes marked ZF K 43 but after the war.
Italy see
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...-sniper-rifles
https://comandosupremo.com/forums/in...n-snipers.179/
ie seems they had no snipers.
Poland
see https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=113537
'There were some German-made Zeiss telescopic sights and some trials of a Polish-made telescopic sights. According to pre-war plans each infantry troop was to include one sniper, but they were to be armed with automatic rifles (which however did not enter the Polish service in large enough quantities). Altogether on April 1, 1937 there were only 347 rifles with telescopic sights mountings in Polish hands, including 100 Polish-made Mausers and 247 German-made Mausers. By July of 1938 only 116 telescopic sights for them were available, most as a "strategic reserve of the C-i-C. It is not certain how many of them were issued to front-line troops in 1939 (source: http://www.wojsko18-39.internetdsl.pl/w ... ikiop.html)" So, all in all, memoirs by German veterans of 1939 often mention "Polish snipers", but they were not snipers in the modern sense, as they simply were soldiers trained in accurate shooting at long distance, not soldiers equipped with some special armaments.'

So these countries should have their sniper rifles removed and be left with marksman as the only 'sniper' type. Obviousy only a very few countries actually had the facilities and expertise to produce a telescopic sight, and buying and fitting them is of course a very expensive excercise.

Though accuracy of snipers isn't disputed what range they can operate is, most comments on range agree with these 3 quotes from the book The military sniper since 1914 by Pegler.
The British say
"The use of ordinary production military rifles allied to the relatively low power of most telescopic sights meant that true long range shooting - i.e. at ranges of over 600 yards - was rare. Experience showed that attempting to shoot out to these ranges was generally a waste of time."
2 quotes from the Germans
"The normal Sm.E. [ball] ammunition allows no precision shooting over 300-400 metres." (precision here refers to a gauranteed hit)
"Matthias Herzenauer, one of the most skilled of German snipers, reckoned that with a K98k he could shoot out to maximum 700-800 metres...but only if he was using a 6x power telscope."
Matthias may well have been using sS ammunition which is "Match" quality, only Germany used match quality sniping ammunition, initially in small quantities but in large quantities during 1945. Everyone else used standard ball, except possibly for some USMC snipers who may have had match grade ammunition sent from private sources at home.
Also a quote from Bulls book Second world war Infantry tactics, The european theatre discussing British Sniping
"Shots were usually taken within 400yd. beyond wich range sniping is rarely effective'"
In With british snipers to the Reich by Captain C. Shore, he also mentions that British snipers only trained up to 400yds in any case and that adjustment for wind was not possible past 600 yds as the dial got to the end of its travel. But adds that Australian snipers did train at longer ranges than the British.
US Army sniper training was only to 200yds.
I think its fair to say sniping range is directly related to telescopic magnification.
Sniper rifles by Pelger says 2x mag gives good shooting up to a range of about 400yds
In the game all snipers have a range of 750m which is too long for most telescopes/rifle combinations.
I think it might be interesting to change from the single generic sniper rifle which is the same for all countries to sniper rifles with values reflecting the various countries scope/rifle combinations. For example the Germans fielded 1.5x and 6.0x telescopes which performed very differently on the same gun.

So If you agreed that range and accuracy is directly related to the telescopes magnification then here is a possible set of values for the ww2 sniper rifles.
Fire control is described in help as how good your optics are, so Ive fixed fire control to magnification. I've used the game values of 30 for accuracy, 15 for range and 10 for fire control as maximum values for the highest magnification sniper telescopes.

Magnification Accuracy Range Fire Control Range Finder Sniper Code
0.0 1 10 0 0 Rifleman (for comparison)
0.0 5 10 1 1 Marksman (suggested)
1.5 22 10 2 2 Sniper1.5
2.0 23 11 3 3 Sniper2.0
2.5 24 11 4 4 Sniper2.5
3.0 25 12 5 5 Sniper3.0
3.5 26 12 6 6 Sniper3.5
4.0 27 13 7 7 Sniper4.0
5.0 28 14 8 8 Sniper5.0
6.0 29 15 9 9 Sniper6.0
8.0 30 16 10 10 Sniper8.0
This covers all the actual telescope/rifle combinations for ww2
Here is the actual telescope/rifle combinations for ww2.

Great Britain
In With British snipers to the Reich by Captain C. Shore he comments "Start of World War II found us without a sniping school and without snipers"
He also goes on to comment that he has been unable to find any evidence of anyone using a telescoped rifle before Dunkirk and adds " one of the armys finest shots could not find a single, solitary British telescope sighted rifle in the middle east in the summer of 1941."
https://webpages.uidaho.edu/stratton/Enhistory.htm says
"In 1941, a quantity of P-14 (No. 3) rifles were fitted with Aldis scopes, utilizing a low side mount. The low mount required that the sight protector “ears” on the receiver be milled off. In addition, a wood cheekrest (similar to that of the No. 4 “T-Model” rifle) were attached to the buttstock. This rifle was designated the No. 3 Mk I* (T) A, the “A” designating “Aldis.” (aldis No 4 (3x)) P/1918 (3x)"
and
"In February 1942, a telescopic sighted version of the Mk I was approved as No. 4 Mk I(T) Rifle."
These are the only sniper rifles to be used by Britian. Some texts mention sniping by the British prior to 1941 but no mention of telescopic sights, so these are marksmen.
Telescopes for the No. 3 Mk I* (T) A can be Aldis (3x) or PPCo (2x)
No. 4 Mk I(T) has telescope No. 32 (3x)
So Great Britian gets Sniper2.0 and Sniper3.0 starting in 41

Australia/New Zealand
See https://books.google.com.au/books?id...20(HT)&f=false
Had a few British P-14s. New Zealand nothing, so for Australia/New Zealand probably same as Great Britian getting Sniper2.0 and Sniper3.0 in 41

Canada
https://captainstevens.com/military/...sniper-rifles/
Canada has P-14 with warner and swasey (5x) telescope from 1941
They also used Ross MkIII rifle with Warner and Swasey (5x) or Winchester A5 (5x) scope.
https://webpages.uidaho.edu/stratton/Enhistory.htm says
From Feb 1942 start using No 32 (3x) or Lyman Alaskan scopes (2.5x) on some Canadian T-Models. (T for Telescope)
They then went on to use the British No. 4 Mk I(T) with No. 32 (3x)
So Canada gets Sniper5.0 from 41 and in February 42 gets Sniper2.5 and Sniper3.0.

India
They did produced their own Enfields. Indian TOEs show snipers late war, so probably had No. 4 Mk I(T) with the No. 32 (3x) some time after feb 1942.
So India gets Sniper3.0 from February 42

Spanish Republic
Used Mosin Nagent PEM (4x). First Russian shipments arrived in October 36.
So Sniper4.0 and Sniper3.5 from about 10/36

Belgium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Mauser_Model_1935
http://fr.1001mags.com/parution/gaze...texte-integral
Fusil 35 has (2.75x) scope
So get a Sniper2.5 from about 35

Japan
Japan used the Tomioka Type 1 (2.5x) in 1939, then in 1942 introduced a (4x) these were mounted on type 97, type 99 or type 38 rifles.
So Japan gets Sniper2.5 in 39 and Sniper4.0 in 42.
Rikugun vol 2 gives this
using a 2.5 powere telescope increase hit chance by 10% at 300m and a 30% increase at 600m with a type 97 Rifle. But wit a type 99 rifle 35% hit increase at all ranges using a 2.5 power telescope

Finnish
mosin nagent with PEM (4x) starting 1931
So Sniper4.0 from 31

Nationalist China
Sniper Rifles by Pegler says they had some Remington Springfield 03s with the Weaver 330 scope (2.5x)
Apparently their Type 24 rifle could also be fitted with a telescope as the Type 24 was a mauser copy and they used German equipment the scope could be German 3x or 4x.
So maybe get Sniper3.0 or Sniper 4.0 in 35 or so but these would be extremely rare I suspect.
And get Sniper2.5 in about Jan43

Hungary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ndY74C6h8
They used WW1 vintage 1889 mannlicher rifles and carbines with usually a german 3x scope
So get Sniper3.0 in 30.

Romania
Issued with Soviet Mosin-Nagant model 1891/30 with PEM (4x) sight. Some sources say these were captured riflles.
So get Sniper4.0 in about July or a few monthe later, 41
https://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1356

Sweden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Uoxg-Nsa8
Used the M41b rifle with a 4x scope in 1941 and with a 3x in 1943
So get Sniper4.0 in 41 and Sniper3.0 in 43

USMC
See http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=3723
and also US infantry weapons of World War II by Canfield wich says,
USMC started the war with a very few Springfield (M1903A5) rifles fitted with winchester A5 (5x) or Lyman 5A (5x) from January 1943 these were replaced with M1903 A4 sniper rifle using the weaver 330C/M73B1 (2.5x) or the M8/Lyman Alaskan telescope (2.5x)
In late 1942 or early 1943 USMC also started recieving the M1903A1 with unertl scope (8x).
The Garand sniper rifles are not used by marines.
So USMC gets Sniper5.0 from 30 then in late 42 or early 43 gets sniper8.0. In 43 gets Sniper2.5.
Sniper5.0 was discontinued very early in the pacific campaign as it was fragile. Probably as soon as the other two types became available.

USA
According to Canfields US infantry weapons of WW2 and Pelgars Military sniper since 1914 US Army recieved its first sniper rifles in late 1942. The M1904 A4 springfiled rifle with the weaver 330 M73B1 (2.5x) telescope.
According to US infantry weapons of WW2 no M1C (sniping garand) rifles were known to have been sent to Europe. A few M1Cs arrived in the Pacific around 4/45 M1C used a Lyman alaskan sight M73 M81 (2.5x).
So USA gets Sniper2.5 from late 42.
From 4/45 could have a Sniper2.5 with HE kill of 3 (Garand)
As Sniper rifles gets a HE kill value of 2 compared to the 1 of the same rifle without scope Ive followed this convention and added 1 to the HE value of any weapon that has a telescope. So normal Garand has 2, sniper Garand has 3.
Apparently the American 2.75x scope is actually closer to 2.5x or even 2.0x leading to some confusion in the discussion.

Soviet Union
Had the Mosin Nagent rifle with PEM (4x) starting in 1931 and the same rifle with the PU (3.5x) sight starting about 1935.
Soviet also used the SVT38 and SVT40 with the PU (3.5x) these appeared in the winter war so about Nov 1939.
So Soviets get Sniper 4.0 in 31 and a Sniper3.5 in about 35.
From 11/39 could have a Sniper3.5 with HE kill of 3 (SVT)

German
From The german sniper 1924 -1945 by Senich
"Many... Gewehr 98...original 3-power and 4-power hunting scopes were pressed into service"
The book also mentions 6x telescopes available from before the beginning of the war and used during the war
A very few of the Gewehr 41 may have been fielded as a trial with the zf40 (1.5x) sometime in 1941. K98k recieved the ZF41 (1.5x) sight in July 41.
Gewehr 43 with the ZF 4 (4x) was fielded at the same time as the regular gewehr 43 so about 9/43
The FG42 has the Zfg 42 (4x) scope. Introduction date for rifle and scope the same
For completeness I've included the scope fitted MPs though these were probably rare to nonexistant. And would have less range as they fired a weaker cartridge than the normal sniper rifle.
MKb(h) and MKB(w) could use the 1.5x 1942-43
MP43/1 could use the 1.5x 1943.
MP43, MP43/1,MP44 and StG44 can have a Zf 4 (4x) scope. Testing done in Oct43.
So Germany gets Sniper4.0 and Sniper3.0 in 30, Sniper6.0 in about 35 and Sniper1.5 in Jul41
Also a Sniper4.0 HE kill of 3 on Sept43 (G 43) and Sniper4.0 HE kill of 4 on Jan43 (FG 43)
Possibility of a Sniper4.0 HE kill of 4 from Oct43 (MP43, MP43/1,MP44,StG44)
SS began being equipped with K98k's with 4x scopes in late 1939. So Sniper4.0 for SS late39

There is also the two man sniper team fielded by the British, Germans, US Army but not the Japanese. Japanese currently have 2 man team, should be removed. Japanese snipers were actually very hard to locate because the 6.5mm round in the very long barrel gave no smoke or flash. The soft report of their rifles also meant that their direction and so location was also very dificult to determine. I think it might be coded for a sniper to be extra hard to kill, if this is true then I would limit this 'ability' to Japanese snipers.
The British 2 man team has a 20x spotting telescope so some advantage should be given for this, not sure what. Maybe +1 for FC and RF. Germans 2 man teams seemed to just use binoculars.
Sniper ROF should probably be quite a bit lower for several reasons, for example, the USMC 8x unertl scope had to be reset after each shot. Lee enfield snipers have to put the bullets into the rifle one at a time because the scope is in the way of the charger. Snipers took great care to remain concealed, part of which was to shoot sparodicaly or even change positions between shots, they also selected special targets not regular infantry. Low ROF might go some way in getting their kill rate below that of HMGs.
As for formations snipers are relatively rare.
Swedes apparently had 6 snipers per coy.
German paratroopers could have a few per platoon.
according to
https://web.archive.org/web/20160421..._battalion.htm
German Paratrooer can have one per section.
British had one sniper section per Battalion. Sniper section has 1 sgt, 1cprl, 2 lcps, 4 privates. ie 4 2 man teams.
US Army can have 1 sniper per platoon.
Soviet snipers were sometines allocated to platoons, everyone else had them operating independantly. So possibly remove snipers from within platoon formations except for Soviets.
Snipers in sections are marksmen and should be renamed as such.

Replacing the single generic German Sniper rifle weapon with German Sniper rifles 1.5, 3.0, 4.0 and 6.0 can be done in the German OOB by replacing the weapons 004 and 005 MMGs (MG34/42 only come in HMG and LMG configurations not MMG) and using one of the 3 empty weapons slots. The other 2 empty slots could be the G43 and FG43 sniper rifles. And of course there are 8 different German sniper units to work with.

Also German weapon 41/44, 46/49, 47/50/52, 48/51 and 61/62 are pairs (one triplet) of the same weapon they have different designations as the mountings differ but the jguns are identicle. Designation for 51 is StK, should actually be PaK, Sabot penetration is 23 should be 27) There is a possible saving of 6 weapons slots by renaming these sets of weapons. For example, 46 and 49 are 7.5cm KwK40 L43 and 7.5cm StK40 L43 these could be combined into one slot as something like 7.5cm KwK40/StK40 L43 or maybe 7.5cm 40 L43 and coding the correct StK or KwK according to the Unit Class.