OT-Star Trek Nemesis

[Captain Kwok]

***This Post Contains Spoilers ***

Atrocities:

I disagree with the weak plot - that is not true - sure it had some nitpicks, but so does every movie including First Contact!

The complaint re: Shinzon's forces is a common one by a lot of Star Trek fans. If you listen to the dialogue carefully, you can see how it might have been accomplished:

Shinzon was mentioned as an important commander during the Dominion war and fought and won with the Reman forces during the worst conflicts of the war. So, he would be respected by the Remans for sure and valuable to the Romulans. The Schimitar, Shinzon's ship, didn't need to a secret project. I'm sure the Romulans are just as good as building starship prototypes like the Federation. It was probably given to him by the conspirators to command, as part of the plot against the Romulans. Since he had the support of most of the military including the Reman forces and the stated fact "governemnt changes" occur frequently on Romulus, it's not far fetched at all!

Wow. Not so far-fetched eh?

The B-4 acquisition is a little rushed - I suppose they could have found a better way of acquiring him - but it wasn't so bad as some people make it seem.

[Thermodyne]

Well it sounds like a good flick to me. I kind of like those dark looking space movies. Around here a ticket will be 9 bucks, but as a long time fan, I think it will be worth it. I was a kid when the original series aired, and never saw the first episode until it was well into the cheap rerun time slots. Then when ST1 came out, the state of the art had improved so much, that I was awed. Let’s face it, Star Trek never had a really good story line and the production was 1960’s TV cheesy. The first series was a collection of reworks that more often that not were pretty sorry. And while STNG had some really good episodes, they also had a lot of boring episodes. But that is the budget process at work. The Last couple of seasons, STNG did manage to develop a continuing story line. The next two series are not worth mention, one is ridiculous and the other is a trek Version of some classic literature. The new series has had some good shows and some that really suck. If they are going to do an origins series, I think we need to see the wars that we always heard about in the first series. But they seem to have skipped them. Star Trek has always tried to show the Federation as peaceful explorers, but at the same time the story line was always one about the wars that were fought in the past. And often revolved around neutral zones and such. I for one have grown tired of seeing the Enterprise have to get a whooping before it fights back. How many times have we seen them tricked by a weaker foe, and then forced to fight from a disadvantaged position. The only Enterprise that I ever saw kick butt from the get go was the one with the three nacelles, a G10 I think it was. In conclusion, Star Trek has been a good series of shows and movies. But there has been at least as much bad trek as there was good trek. Any Trek movie that is enjoyable to watch is fine by me, but I have had enough of the warm fuzzy ones. They need to keep the action and adventure level high. And forget about trying to make feel good movies.

[tesco samoa]

******SPOILER***********

I thought that the writers and producers decided that a plot like the fast and the furious was the way to go... and add alittle King Auther to the mix... to get new fans... Very cookie cutter. Less plot more action, cover up the lack of story with special effects. Sorry it was a stupid story. The whole data thing was silly... Ever heard of Lore... Oh look they downloaded his memory to the other guy... guess who does not make it to thenext movie... The enterprise was cool. But the other ship was bah.... And the script was horrible... Defensive pattern Kirk-delta... what ever. Oh well to each his own... I hope that is not the Last one... But at the same time i hope the movie is not too sucessful... As I do not want my beloved Trek to wallow down that path of Cookie Cutter Block Buster Crap.

[Cheeze]

I really enjoyed Nemesis. It seemed very much like a two-hour episode from the series, which is the level I expected. The production seemed very first-class, as the film had a shine that the tv series couldn't have afforded. I did find the set-up for the story a little abrupt, and as noted the missing Tal-Shiar makes you wonder about who wrote the story. I thought these people were all briefed on how to write in the Star Trek Universe. I would have liked more on the Troi-Viceroy angle, but they did use it and give her a little more time. I figured where B4 was going in all this, but I was holding out the hope that he was someone we Trek fans were a little more familiar with in our Trek villain ensemble.

I did like how there was a USS Archer. A friend pointed that out to me.

I loved how the battle scenes had a definite Space Empires feel. I believe that most or many of the Star Trek shipsets had the Enterprise "Galaxy" class as a near top hull size...it's clear they will have to be downgraded just a little.

[SgtBigG]

Originally posted by kalthalior:
My report: I enjoyed the movie, it was good, better than Insurrection, but...I found it lacking (somehow) in a way I can't really describe. The space battle was VERY cool, however, and I would recommend the movie. Maybe someone can help me identify what I thought was missing.

That's it exactly. Damned if I know what it was lacking though.

[ December 15, 2002, 17:40: Message edited by: SgtBigG ]

[Cheeze]

**********Spoiler Alert***************

I found it a little lacking in that Shinzon seizes control of the Romulan Empire so easily and then squanders it chasing after the Enterprise. Although I thought it funny that even if he had beaten Picard, he still would not have known where the Federation ships were because he had false information. He might well have failed to reach Earth and succesfully wipe it out, even with his great cloak.

[Atrocities]

I believe that most or many of the Star Trek shipsets had the Enterprise "Galaxy" class as a near top hull size...it's clear they will have to be downgraded just a little.

I don't follow you? The Galaxy is larger than the Soverign, but less powerful. The Galaxy Class Enterprise, "D" was destroyed by an obsolete Klingon Bird of Prey. So size does not matter. Second if you had heard the list of armorment that Shinzons Dreadnought had, you would understand why it was able to cripple the Enterprise "E" a Soverign class star ship.

Federation ship have historically been designed as exploration ships first, fightingships third or fourth. If the Federation were to make a starship with war in mind, it would be an awsome site to behold. But that would be a fundamental violation of the Principles that Gene Roddenburry had established for the Federation when he created Star Trek.

So honestly, with this knowledge, I feel that the Galaxy Class ships are right where they belong as are the Soverign in the Trek ship sets.

I disagree with the weak plot - that is not true - sure it had some nitpicks, but so does every movie including First Contact!

Perhaps the book will contain more detail. Sorry Kwok, I am a big fan of story detail, not slipped in comments to cover up holes in a plot. I guess I should get used to it by now, but I still find it hard too.

The orignial story idea pitched by Logan was impressive in its scope, but the hackers at Paramount cheezed it up. Brent Spiner got involved very early on to help preserve some of the original story line as well as to indroduce his demise. Brent does not want to be in any more movies as a stated fact, so Data's death was a foregone conclusion the moment they found the first arm.

The movie had a ton of questionable plot points, but overall the acting and action is what carried the movie. The fact that Shinzons ship had 70% shields and the Enterprise was able to ram her was a bit odd. (Established in many episodes, when shields are up, ships that attempt to ram bounce off.)

I was not a fan of First Contact. I thought it was lacking in many ways. It was designed not with attention to plot and story as so much as it was designed for action. But many people wanted action so that is what they got. They tried that here to, but also tried to give us a far more gripping story. They did succeed, just not as successfully as they could have if they would have had another 30 mintues to do it.

Why can a movie like this go three hours? I mean they only produce one every three to four years, so when one comes out, give us a lot of it.

[ December 16, 2002, 02:03: Message edited by: Atrocities ]