"Gamey" tactics like "Rock, none" races

[spoon]

Originally posted by PvK:

However, building multiple training facilities in the same sector does seem to me like an obvious bug exploit.
PvK

Really? The facility text says, "only one effective per planet." If it was a bug exploit, I would think that text would read, "Only one facility effective per sector."

Definitely "gamey", though...

[LGM]

I would say the None races, with Rock/None being generally better the Ice/None, have little advantage over other races, unless you play the players can only colonize their own atmosphere type (None). In this case, they have more potential sites for building shipyards than any other races (other races will need more orbital shipyards). However, the None player will have very few worlds that can utilize planet bonuses, because what good is +20% bonus if you have to give up one of your 5 facilities to get it. None worlds are smaller and thus easier to take out (fewer weapons platforms possible).

[ December 20, 2002, 12:50: Message edited by: LGM ]

[geoschmo]

Rock/None is no advantage. It is not gamey. It is not cheating by any definition. It has advantages and disadvantages over other choices. It depends on your play style. Do you like lot's of little planets spread around, or a few huge ones? Are you a player that prefers a more centralized or a more diffuse empire?

When I lose a game, which I do quite often, rather than look for some reason why the other guy was cheating to explain my loss I try to learn from his tactic and devise a counter to it.

Since I have been on this forum the following have tried to claim the "Uber-tactic" crown.

Gas Giant Races
Fighter Races
Berzerker Culture Races
Phased Polaron Races
Religios Races

I have played a lot of games. I have lost to players using all these tactics, and I have won games agaisnt players usign all these tactics.

Three words.

Rock, Paper, Sizzors.

Geoschmo

[spoon]

Whereas I agree that there is no Ultimate Unbeatable Race Style, you have to admit that a warrior/bezerker religious race weilding PPBs (midgame) and APBs (late game) is more likely to win than an Artist/Gas Giant race that refuses to use those weapons...

I'm not saying the poor Artisans have no chance, but if you had to bet, I'd put my money on the bloodthirsty religious zealots.

Fortunately, teaming up with all your neighbors to defeat a power-hungry despot remains as the ultimate balancing factor...

-spoon

[SamuraiProgrammer]

One tactic I have seen used / abused works like this:

Choose Ancient Race.

Claim the entire Galaxy.

Trade your claim of empty systems that you will never use because they are far, far away to naive computer races for home planets.

Watch your score climb like a rocket.

Make trade-savvy races surrender because your score is so much higher than theirs.

Enjoy unbeatable advantage over other human players.

This tactic is so unbalancing, we have actually outlawed ancient races and surrender in some of our games.

This is only a problem because the computer players were willing to make these ridiculous trades. Oh well, you can't have everything.

[gravey101]

I don't think I've ever played in a PBW game with computer players.

I did see a player once take advantage of a another guy who missed a turn by geting the AI to trade him some his planets and grab his population. It was 'clever', but not the way the game should be played IMO, and I haven't played with the guy since.

I agree with Geo that none of these things are unbeatable. Especially planet/atmosphere combos. Talisman can be real tough, but they tend to attract anti-religious coalitions pretty quick. Having a good starting position always seems more important to me. I.e. room to expand, some good planets, a weak neighbour with different colonization/atmosphere breathers.

[PvK]

Originally posted by spoon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PvK:

However, building multiple training facilities in the same sector does seem to me like an obvious bug exploit.
PvK

Really? The facility text says, "only one effective per planet." If it was a bug exploit, I would think that text would read, "Only one facility effective per sector."

Definitely "gamey", though...

---

I think it's so obviously senseless, that it counts as a bug. There is no reasonable explanation why moons should multiply the training rate. At best, it's an "idiotic design exploit", but I think it's actually kinder to call it a bug. I guess it's a good thing to discuss in the game introduction so players know whether it's not allowed, or if they should go hunting for moons...

As for the talisman, it's a massive advantage, only balanced if the other players in the game realize it and organize to prevent it from ruling the quadrant before it's too late.

I would agree that the cultures and traits are not all well balanced in terms of cost, although this can be corrected in a mod (e.g., Proportions). Has no one made a mod that corrects this balance problem for the standard set?

PvK