"Gamey" tactics like "Rock, none" races

[geoschmo]

The multiple training facility thing is an exploit yes, but it's not a tremendous advantage. I am not positive that on balance it's much of an advantage at all. The player doing it has to waste extra facility spots, and the only benefit is faster training. It only take 7 turns as it is to fully train a ship or fleet, for the cost of two extra facility spots (6 extra if you want ship and fleet training facs) you get your crews trained in 3 turns. But the max training is still 20%. That 4 turns isn't going to turn the course of a game.

Do I wish the game would not allow it? Sure. It's kind of hinky, and the game isn't clear on what the rule should be. Any time you have stuff like this it can cause problems between players and I hate that. It's like the mines per sector thing was. Is it a major concern that would cause me to go hunting a players moons? Not a bit.

It's just not that big a deal.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by PvK:
As for the talisman, it's a massive advantage, only balanced if the other players in the game realize it and organize to prevent it from ruling the quadrant before it's too late.

Balderdash. If the tailsman were such a tremendous advantage, how come out of 6 original tailsman races in Furball 3, only 1 is still a viable empire and he is in trouble? And that was a ten planet high tech start. If ever a game was tailor made for the supremacy of the tailsman this was it. And they have performed dismally. No offense intended to the players that chose it. Just calling it as I see it. Come up with all your reasons and explanations, but in practice they just don't hold up.

Geoschmo

[spoon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
The multiple training facility thing is an exploit yes, but it's not a tremendous advantage. I am not positive that on balance it's much of an advantage at all.

This from the person who claims PPBs are balanced. Out with it, Geo, you're really Aaron, aren't you.

[rextorres]

Actually I think Religious has become a disadvantage because every game I've played in the Last six month has had the religious player suffer a coalition against him.

[LostCommander]

I agree with the "almost a disadvantage" PoV. The games I play are always with "Can only colonize atmosphere type." option in the game setup (which obviously affects my PoV). This means that there are NO gas giants I can colonize (yes, I am still trying to eek out a living amongst the moons) and production can be seriously hampered (the population production / construction bonuses are NICE) unless I am lucky with the map. Great use of units and the proliferation of SS construction yards in my empire nicely balances it though. If one does not mind utilizing units extensively, the extra moons (which often outnumber the possible gas giants with a breathable atmosphere for other races) are perfect. Also, with one or two trustworthy allies, moons can make great supplemental defences for an ally's planet.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by spoon:

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
The multiple training facility thing is an exploit yes, but it's not a tremendous advantage. I am not positive that on balance it's much of an advantage at all.

This from the person who claims PPBs are balanced. Out with it, Geo, you're really Aaron, aren't you.

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No, I am not Aaron. I just play a lot of games on PBW so I don't jump on the bandwagon every time someone claims to find the super secret formula for SEIV success. I have learned they all have their weaknesses. To me actual proof is worth a lot more than any theory or scads of charts and formula. If PPB, tailsman, or multiple training facilities were the nirvana they all were claimed by various people, then everybody would be doing them, or at least everybody that won games would be doing them. And I can tell you from experience everybody doesn't do them, and those that do them don't always win.

I never said PPB are perfectly balanced. I think they might be a little cheap to research, and at level 3 they are a bit strong IIRC. But overall they aren't the uber waepon that people claim them to be. They are simply too short ranged and too expensive to be the ultimate weapon. Those are huge weaknesses that are easily countered.

Geoschmo

[ December 20, 2002, 22:17: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Pax]

Originally posted by PvK:
However, building multiple training facilities in the same sector does seem to me like an obvious bug exploit.

PvK

Why?