PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)

[spoon]

Originally posted by oleg:
Emotionless is obviously way too expensive.
Organics may become overprized after 1.82 OA fix.

If you reduce the cost of Farming, this will essentially make Organic cheaper, and also give less points back to everyone else, who can safely drop it to 50%.

[geoschmo]

Not too mention making farming cheaper than mining or refining just makes sense. Of course making sense isn't always the same thing as game playability. But in this case maybe it is. Good suggestion Spoon.

Geoschmo

[dumbluck]

PVK is not the only modder who is watching this thread closely. Thanx for all of your help with the AoW mod!

[PvK]

I've done some work on this, and it's getting there. Here are my current notes, for your comments.

Traits:
=======

* Advanced Power Conservation cost lowered from 1000 to 500.

This trait was rarely used, and while helpful, was not nearly as useful as other 1000-point traits.

* Mechanoids cost lowered from 1000 to 250.

This trait was probably never used by a skilled player in a competitive game. I have played many unmodded games, and have never been attacked by a plague bomb, and the few natural and espionage plagues have been easily cured for little cost and little effect. Moreover, empires with this advantage are immediately identified as such, so only an unobservant player would ever try to use a plague attack on a Mechanoid player. 250 points seems about right for this minor advantage, and removes the "balance penalty" for roleplaying mechanoid races.

* Lucky cost lowered from 1000 to 250.

The practical value of this varies depending on the game settings for random events. In many games, it will not be worth very much. In games with catastrophic events, at 250 points it simply becomes a dare to risk not taking it. Since the effects vary, and if multiple empires take it, they counteract each other, and since frequently this has little effect, it seemed to make sense to reduce it to a minor cost, which removes the amount of "wasted points" for empires which take Lucky in games where it won't have much or any effect.

* Natural Merchants, Propulsion Experts, Ancient Race and Hardy Industrialists left at 1000 points.

These all seem of roughly equivalent value to me. Ancient Race can be abused in some gamey ways, but gives no advantage beyond knowledge, so opponents can get more permanent advantages. Hardy Industrialists may be somehwat less efficient compared to construction aptitude, but it can be combined with it to reach the highest levels of construction rate, which some players use in their grand strategies.

* Advanced Storage Techniques cost increased from 1000 to 2000 points.

This one was pretty much universally accepted as the best 1000-point unmodded advantage, for its many effects and side-effects on facilities, starting strength, population, and cargo space. 2000 points seems about right to me compared to the other adjusted values.

* All racial techs remain at 1500 points.

After the many discussions over the years, it seems to me that these are all fairly well balanced and rated at 1500 points. They can all seem too powerful or too expensive if one doesn't appreciate all of their abilities and counter-tactics.

* Emotionless cost reduced from 3000 to 1800 (net 2200 to net 1000 when minimizing Happiness).

This is a very useful ability for lazy or new players, as well as for large empires that suffer damage that would otherwise make the entire empire riot and fall. Almost no competitive players were thinking twice about paying 2200 points for it, however. At 1000 net points, I'd say it's a good deal, and a valid choice for roleplayers.

Physical Strength:
==================
* Basic cost lowered from 25 to 3.
* Threshold lowered from 20 to 10.
* Positive threshold cost lowered from 100 to 5.
* Negative Threshold cost increased from 10 to 3.

Minimizing troop strength to 50 now only provides 150 points.
Maximizing troop strength to 150 now only costs 230 points.

Intelligence:
=============
* Basic cost increased from 25 to 50.
* Threshold lowered from 20 to 10.
* Negative Threshold cost increased from 10 to 40.

This means "the cheap bonus" is +10 for 500 points, instead of +20 for 500 points.
+20 costs 1500 points, and +50 would cost 4500.
Playing a "dumb" race is now more viable - a 90% race gets 500 points, while a 50% race gets 2100.

PvK

[spoon]

I agree with everything you posted, though wonder about these two:

Originally posted by PvK:

* Natural Merchants, Propulsion Experts, Ancient Race and Hardy Industrialists left at 1000 points.

I still have a hard time seeing why Natural Merchants are worth so much - their biggest benifit (not having to worry about a spaceport getting wiped out) can be more or less achieved normally by putting 2-3 more spaceports in each system. My gut says it's worth maybe 500, but since so many say otherwise, I'd say maybe give it 750.

* Advanced Storage Techniques cost increased from 1000 to 2000 points.

Seems too high. I think at 1500 I'd still always take it. At 2000, I'm not sure. Maybe that is right and just seems high because it's such a large jump...

[TerranC]

Originally posted by spoon:
I still have a hard time seeing why Natural Merchants are worth so much - their biggest benifit (not having to worry about a spaceport getting wiped out) can be more or less achieved normally by putting 2-3 more spaceports in each system. My gut says it's worth maybe 500, but since so many say otherwise, I'd say maybe give it 750.

Natural Merchants allow four advantages:
*it allows you to set up resources producing colonies quicker than others
*1 more facility space (or in your case, 3 more spaces)
*Hard to blockade
*Allows other facilities to be built in the time it would normally take a space port to build.

IMHO, those advantages should cost about 1250 racial points.

[spoon]

[quote]Originally posted by TerranC:

Natural Merchants allow four advantages:
*it allows you to set up resources producing colonies quicker than others
*1 more facility space (or in your case, 3 more spaces)
*Hard to blockade
*Allows other facilities to be built in the time it would normally take a space port to build.

IMHO, those advantages should cost about 1250 racial points.

I'm still not buying it. While your points are valid, they seem like small potatoes.