PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)

[Fyron]

No, I don't think blockading the spaceport (or any other system-wide facility) does anything to affect other planets in the system. I remember a discussion about this before, and someone tested it.

Originally posted by dumbluck:
I am curious why you made physical strength (the ground combat bonus stat) so minor. Maybe I'm just inexperienced, but I would have thought capturing planets to be of pivotal importance, and thus the costs to increase and decrease should have been higher.

The thing is, you can get 800 points from lowering the trait to 50%, and still be able to easily conquer planets. Militia are too weak to offer siginificant resistance in almost all cases. Defensive ground troops get bombarded before you drop your troops (in strategic combat). So, there is really no penalty to lowering the trait to 50%.

[ December 28, 2002, 19:04: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[PvK]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
I am curious why you made physical strength (the ground combat bonus stat) so minor. Maybe I'm just inexperienced, but I would have thought capturing planets to be of pivotal importance, and thus the costs to increase and decrease should have been higher.

What Fryon said, more or less. Militia are easily overwhelmed even with a small force and minimum Physical Strength. Even in those situations where defensive troops manage to fight, it is easy to compensate for low Physical Strength with more troops, and there is so little information presented about troops and troop combat, and it happens so quickly, that the physical strength of ground troops turns out to be a very minor factor (in the few actual troop combats that ever occur, it's almost always an overwhelming odds ratio for one side or the other). So, in the unmodded game, I think Physical Strength is sometimes a minor advantage, but never more important than the Advanced Traits I rated at 250 points. So, with these settings, the maximums (which aren't really very extreme - 50 to 150%) are in the neighborhood of 250 points either way.

(BTW, I feel it is possible to _mod_ troops so strength becomes more important (e.g. Proportions), but this is just a balance mod for the otherwise-unmodded game.)

PvK

[PvK]

Been distracted lately. Adjusted Intelligence value, and added Cunning.

Intelligence:
=============
* Basic cost increased from 25 to 50.
* Threshold lowered from 20 to 10.
* Positive threshold cost lowered from 100 to 75.
* Negative Threshold cost increased from 10 to 40.

This means "the cheap bonus" is +10 for 500 points, instead of +20 for 500 points.
+20 costs 1250 points, and +50 would cost 3500.
Playing a "dumb" race is now more viable - a 90% race gets 500 points, while a 50% race gets 2100.

Cunning:
========
* Threshold lowered from 20 to 10.
* Positive threshold cost lowered from 100 to 40.
* Negative Threshold cost increased from 10

This means less can be gained by lowering cunning, and raising it is more expensive between 110% and 122%, but less expensive for a heavy spymaster race over 122%. Maximum 150% Cunning costs 1850 points. Minimum 50% gains 650 points.
Part of the reason for the overall reduction is that defensive intelligence projects have multipliers to their effectiveness, so even a 50% Cunning empire can build up fairly effective defenses against a single antagonist without a lot of effort. The other reason is that concentrating in intelligence seemed very expensive for the amount of advantage gained. 150% Cunning in the unmodded game costs 3500 points, which is way more than it was worth compared to other advantages.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Defensive ground troops get bombarded before you drop your troops (in strategic combat). So, there is really no penalty to lowering the trait to 50%.

Not exactly true. The troops don't get bobarded unless you also have waepons platforms on the planet. It's just that for some wierd reason the troops take damage form orbital bombarment before the weapons platforms do. But if you only have troops and no WP's, then you will have a troop to troop combat and could have problems conquering those planets if you take your 50% to physical strength. That being said, people very rarely keep that many troops garrisoned, or they can't on most small or domed worlds, or they do go ahead and build weapons platforms, or they have taken a reduction to physical strength themselves, so it rarely becomes an issue. Not never, but rarely.

Regarding the merchant trait, I can confirm 100% that Fyron is correct here. Blockading the space port has no effect on the other planets in the system. It only shuts off the resources coming from the planet being blockaded. Destroying or capturing the planet however does knock out the production from the entire system. This greatly increases the value of that particular planet to your empire. In the middle of a war is not when you want to be spending time and resources rebuilding your space port, and losing whole systems worth of resources at a time can hurt even a large empire.

Regarding the Advanced Storage. Maybe I misunderstood PvK, but it seems as if you are giving the ADV Storage some subjective value. I thought the point of the balance mod was to eliminate this kind of stuff and make the different costs all be on the same scale? I am not saying that 2000 points is too much or too little for the trait cause I haven't tried to figure it out, but it ought to be easily enough to calculate the comparative worth of adv storage versus a 20% boost in all the production facilities plus the average loss of production per planet for enough cargo faciliites to store 20% more units.

It may turn out it's still cheap at 2000 points, or that may be too expensive for what you get in return. But trying to factor in some subjective "rareness" value seems counter to what you said the mod was for.

Geoschmo

[ January 06, 2003, 12:21: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[PvK]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Regarding the Advanced Storage. Maybe I misunderstood PvK, but it seems as if you are giving the ADV Storage some subjective value. I thought the point of the balance mod was to eliminate this kind of stuff and make the different costs all be on the same scale? I am not saying that 2000 points is too much or too little for the trait cause I haven't tried to figure it out, but it ought to be easily enough to calculate the comparative worth of adv storage versus a 20% boost in all the production facilities plus the average loss of production per planet for enough cargo faciliites to store 20% more units.

It may turn out it's still cheap at 2000 points, or that may be too expensive for what you get in return. But trying to factor in some subjective "rareness" value seems counter to what you said the mod was for.

Good point. I don't mean to increase prices based only on rarity of use. However some advantages can't be valued completely objectively, because there aren't completely equal alternatives to measure against, so I think historical usage can offer at least a little input. I'm trying to be as objective as possible, and also to give some cost for unique abilities.

AST is almost like 20% in Intelligence, Minerals/Orgs/Rads, and Cunning, but it's a bit better because of the 20% extra cargo, and like all traits, it can be combined with aptitudes, and it also allows adding more facilities which don't have equivalent effects in the attribute modifiers. OTOH, you also have to build more facilities and units in order to take advantage of the bonus potential from AST, and there may be some rounding effects. Skillful players will be able to take more advantage than others of complex trait effects. It gets complex.

PvK

[Taera]

hello all, this is a thread i will be visiting a lot as i have many complaints and ideas about SE4G's balance.

lets start with this - scattering and stealth armor. for one, they shouldnt be stackable (maybe set them to 1-per-ship with same family).
Another thing, scattering shouldnt have the block LRS's because it makes jammer obsolete.

i'll be back with more later.

[Fyron]

I think this mod was just for racial traits, actually.