mQNP

[Andrés]

Yes, but the point of QNP is having engines per move proportional to ship sizes.
For example you have many ships with engines per move going from 1 to 255 engines per move. You're right actual tonnage of the ship is irrelevant.

That doesn't sound too bad, but the largest ships using whatever combination of engines to get 255 of thrust will move at 1, any attempt to make it faster will generate an error.

If you want to make the fastest ship have a maximun of 4 movements, you'll need engines per move of 255/4 ~= 64

Then your largest ship can only be 64 times larger than the smallest one, you can't even make the contrast between standard escort and dreadnought, much less add extra sizes.

[Suicide Junkie]

In the latest patch, it won't generate an error, but you still won't go faster.

[Puke]

im not talking about changing engins per move to anything besides 1, im talking about changing the mounts so that..

...nevermind

edit: no. pay attention. its not hard:
(these numbers are arbitrary, and do not reflect game balance or realistic component sizes)
200kt ship. 1 engine per move.

500kt ship. 1 engine per move.

100kt engine.

engine mount for 200kt ship, 2% size. 2kt engine for 1 move.

engine mount for 500kt ship, 5% size. 5kt engine for 1 move.

the above system reflects engines which are DIRECTLY PORPORTIONAL to hull size. that is the standard mQNP system. engines for 1 move are (hull size) / 10

engine mount for 200kt ship, 4% size. 4kt engine for 1 move.

engine mount for 500kt ship, 14% size. 14kt engine for 1 move.

the above system reflects engines which are INDIRECTLY PORPORTIONAL to hull size. this is still mQNP, but is slightly different from how most people use it. engines for 1 move are (hull size)^2 / 10000. this formula does not have to be used exactly, but you get the idea.

this method allows ships of diferent sizes to be different speeds. smaller ships can be significantly faster than larger ships. using the standard mQNP system most people use, all ships will use x% of their space for one engine, meaning that they can all fit the same number of engines in them, if they dont have any other components. sure, if 60% of a big ship is free space, thats more than 60% of a small ship, but the concern is engines rather than available space. bigger ships are faster with a directly porportional system (the kind of mQNP you are used to), if anything, because they can afford to dedicate a greater percentage of their hull space to engines.

an indirectly porportional system fixes that.

[ January 08, 2003, 01:29: Message edited by: Puke ]

[Fyron]

Then your largest ship can only be 64 times larger than the smallest one, you can't even make the contrast between standard escort and dreadnought, much less add extra sizes.

Umm... 1500 / 150 is 10. DN / ES is therefore 10. So, you can very well make the contrast between them.

[Andrés]

Argh!
I shouldn't do math so fast without even checking if results are logic, of course that with 1 engine per 150 kt you can have a nice logical scale for all standard sizes but you will not be able to have really large ships, in an order of 10000 and above and make them move at decent speeds.
I also wanted to make normal motor have arond 10 standard movs, so more advandec engines could be sligtly better, not twice or three times better. A feature I cannot combine with QNM.

And yes this are limitations of normal QNM that should be possible to solve with thie monts aproximation.

[ January 08, 2003, 02:13: Message edited by: Andr&eacutes Lescano ]

[Pax]

Originally posted by Andr&eacutes Lescano:
I also wanted to make normal motor have arond 10 standard movs, so more advandec engines could be sligtly better, not twice or three times better. A feature I cannot combine with QNM.

Then you want to use mQNP.

For example -- the P&N mod; I love it, but I hate basic QNP (big ships = too many clicks, argh!).

So I converted a local copy to mQNP; all the ships have 3epm. The Engines (which, ofc, I made MUCH larger) have 3 (ion), 4 (contra-terrene), 5 (jacketed photon), 6 (quantum), or 7 (gravitic) move points each.

A single Ion engine will move any ship at a speed of 1. So will a single Contra-terrene or JAcketed Photon engine; those advanced engines are only of use if you use more. Specifically:

... three Contra-terrene engines would push as much as four Ion drives. 25% drop in total engine mass to maintain the same speed.

... four Jacketed Photon drives would do the work of five Contra Terrene engines. 20% drop in total engine mass, for the same speed.

And so on.

Ao an mQNP system, qwith EPM>1, can give you just what you seem to be looking for.

Let's assume you want EMP of 5; start with the basic Ion engine giving 5 movement.

Next is the Contra-terrene engine. Give it 7 movement points.

Then the Jacketed Photon drive; give it 9 (notice we're counting by two's).

Quantum engine, 11 movement.

And so on.

...

Of you can get really oddball:

Ion 1 = 5mp
Ion 2 = 6mp
Ion 3 = 7mp

C-T 1 = 9mp
C-T 2 = 10mp
C-T 3 = 11mp

JPh 1 = 13mp
JPh 2 = 14mp
JPh 3 = 15mp

Qua 1 = 17mp
Qua 2 = 18mp
Qua 3 = 19mp

All ships have EPM = 5

Thus, even with in a single engine class, you start to get some benefits to speed, IF you have sufficient numbers of engines installed.

The balance between EPM and engine movement points, in all honesty, is an issue SEPERATE from mQNP ... mQNP satisfies the quasinewtonian aspect by adjusting engine mass directly.

Also, it's NOT an advantage for large ships. Supply USE goes up ... but not supply STORAGE (less and less of the engine, as a %, is represented by fuel tanks, if you will). An escort can get 5 engines and do fine, spending 50% of it's mass and having decent range,maybe with a single solar panel.

OTOH, a 1500kT Baseship consumes TEN TIMES as much fuel per move as the 150kT escort ... so while the 50% "free space" is also ten times larger, much of it will be filled with fuel tanks, AND/OR ... those baseships won't operate far from supply bases and/or ships (say, Medium and Large transports packed with Supply Bay components, or a Quantum Reactor ship ...).

So to an extent, the %-ship-mass used on engines-and-fuel-supply inherently goes up anyway ... but you can choose to make a short-range, more-heavily-armed ship if you wish (for self-defense purposes, for example).

[ January 08, 2003, 03:01: Message edited by: Pax ]

[Suicide Junkie]

If you want even smaller improvements than the P&N ion = 3, CT = 4 jumps, then fiddle with the size of the engine components too.

Engine 1:
3 movement, 10kt = 0.3 per kt
engine 2:
3 movement, 9kt = 0.33 per kt
engine 3:
3 movement, 8kt = 0.375 per kt
engine 4:
4 movement, 10kt = 0.4 per KT

and so on.