does religious *need* the talisman?

[Suicide Junkie]

Didn't someone do a mod replacing the Tailsman with a mount? Using the mount for the weapon didn't change the size or damage, but increased the accuracy and cost? Seems like I remember that being talked about.

I'm sure more people have done it, but what I did was make a talisman mount that added 20% size, +999% accuracy, and no damage. I then bumped up the size of the regular talisman to 150kt.

So you can either use regular weapons for greater power per shot, or you can use talisman mounts to ensure every shot hits.

Whether it is worthwhile or not may depend on how much ECM the enemy is carrying, the sensor tech of the religious race, and the strategies they are employing.

For small ships, the mounts will be best, and for larger ships the 150kt talisman will eventually outdo the mount.

[rextorres]

Everyone keeps talking about how powerful the Talisman is, but it has been a while since I've seen a religious player win in PBW - which tells me that it is really not all that unbalanced after all.

I don't play against the AI, but if you think it's unbalanced there don't choose religious against the AI.

I suppose in on one on one game religious could be devastating, but IMO that isn't the way SE was meant to be played, but I guess that's another discussion.

[Pax]

If the Talisman were removed, and no other "goodies" put in it's place, I would call Religious only a 1000-cost trait at best.

Here's a thought for reqorking Religious, as it appears in stock SE4:

No Talisman.

Additional levels of the Shrines (4 to 6), allowing up to 2x the effect, for proportionately increasing costs. As it is, the War shrine is made pointless by the Talisman, and the Time shrine is only half as good as the System Robotoid.

Add in planet-only Versions of the shrines, as appropriate; perhaps call the Planetary ones "Shrines" and the System-wide Versions "Temples" ... ? Thus, the Religious player could forgo the entire Robotoid/System Robotoid line of research,a nd use Shrines and Temples of the Time variety.

Add religious-based training facilities -- with a slightly higher cap, say 25%.

That, to me, would be worth most or all of 1500 racial points. However, note that there would then be NO ship-based components at all.

[gregajs]

What about replacing the Talisman with component sized Version of some of the shrines? For example, a ship could be outfitted with a war talisman, or a death talisman. This would also solve the problem of many of their most useful shrine abilities only being available on the defensive.

[tesco samoa]

i think it is fine the way it is. If you want to change it mod it....

If you cannot beat the talisman then you have to change your set up....

In Dim 2x I went from being beaten by the talisman all game long to winning every battle against the talisman fleets. All it took was an adjustment of ships.

Here is a hint. Keep your fleets together when fighting the talisman player.

[PvK]

I think the War Shrine is very valuable, and I also think it is more interesting as a facility than as a component. Having a 15% two-way combat bonus that no one else (except Temporal) can match, for no maintenance and no ship space used is very powerful. Limiting to facilities is an interesting limitation, and creates interesting tactics as and against religious empires. It tends to be overshadowed by the talisman in unmodded games, but it's not useless even then. Unless, of course, your play style doesn't include using it.

PvK

[PvK]

BTW, does War Shrine stack with Events Predictor?