Seekers ability to hit a target.

raynor · #1 January 25th, 2001, 01:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
The only thing that bugs me about seekers is that they can't target fighters, when IRL missiles are the primary method of shooting down fighters.

However, I can live without it because the poor litle guys are already so helpless against PD cannons.

Sure, fighters are helpless against PD cannons. But have you ever seen the AI put PD cannons on anything smaller than a Cruiser?

This means that those little guys, in sufficient numbers, are an incredibly powerful weapon at the start of the game.

IMHO, someone looking for a challenge against the AI would do better to disavow use of fighters than to disavow the use of mines...

dmm · #2 January 25th, 2001, 01:12 AM

NOW I can't believe that you guys LIKE that seekers always hit -- regardless of target ship size, initial distance, ECM level, or environment (nebula or storm). As far as PD goes, it is not a guaranteed defense, it has to be researched, and is a waste unless the enemy happens to be using seekers or fighters. And even though missiles are heavy, they do tons of damage, much more than anything else at the beginning of a game with low starting tech.

HELLOOOO PEOPLE! The simple, complete solution to the so-called "missile dance" problem is to enable their to-hit probabilities. No wonder the AI has problems!

Drake · #3 January 25th, 2001, 01:34 AM

Ummmm, wouldn't that just make them really slow beam weapons?

-Drake

[This message has been edited by Drake (edited 24 January 2001).]

geoschmo · #4 January 25th, 2001, 02:12 AM

quote:
What do you want fixed? The fact that the game shows a "to-hit" percentage for missiles, or the fact that they always hit

I am not sure I wanted anything fixed. Pretty much I was just trying to confirm wheather or not what I thought I was seeing was correct.

I guess when you think about it a small, manuverable, missle should be able to pretty much able score a hit every time. We are pretty close to being there now with present day technology. In the future, in space with no wind to factor in, and considering the targets are much much larger than the missle, and much less manuverable, then it should hit every time if it doesn't run out of fuel before it makes contact.

Perhaps there will be an element of chance, say a missle is a dud or something like that. But most likely it would be so rare as to not be needed to be figured in for game purposes.

I think the real "problem" if there is one is that missles are available as a starting tech. This makes it much harder on the ai, unless they happen to have missles as well.

Didn't you have to research to get CSM's in SEIII? The early game then was much more touch and go simply because if you wanted to hit the Ai's escort with your APB/MB you had to get in range for him to hit you too.

I remember several times in SEIII that I would play a few hours on a game before I could say I had it under control. With SEIV that pretty much happens by turn 40 at the latest. By that point I am too far ahead of all the ai's for them to seriously challange me.

Marty Ward · #5 January 25th, 2001, 03:43 AM

I think there should always be a chance for any weapon to miss, even just a tiny one. It make things a little more interesting.

Tomgs · #6 January 25th, 2001, 05:05 AM

Missles should perhaps have a chance to do half damage on a percentage basis instead of missing to simulate a near miss. That would even it up a bit.

Missles are nearly unbeatable in the early game against the AI, but are almost worthless against a human ship (but not so worthless against planets) in tactical combat, what a difference. The ability to run out of range would be a major liability of missles if the AI would just do that a bit more often.

Zanthis · #7 January 25th, 2001, 07:04 AM

I dislike missiles (seekers) having a 100% to hit chance (I also dislike the error in displaying to hit chances). This is my suggestion:

1) Add to the Settings file, a "Seeker Base To Hit Value" that is the chance to hit for all seeking weapons.

2) Seekers would not have their Base To Hit Value reduced by range (i.e., there is not Seeker To Hit Modifier Per Square Distance). Only Combat To Hit Offensive/Defensive Plus/Minus abilities would matter[1].

3) Modify the "Weapons Always Hit" ability to work differently when added to actual weapons. Only THAT weapon always hits. I believe this is how the "Combat To Hit..." set of abilities work: all weapons if not on a weapon, just that weapon when on a weapon.

4) The default \Data\Components.txt file should have all seekers having the ability "Weapons Always Hit", thereby duplicating the current seekers always hitting.

This would allow those of us who want it to work differently to change things. On top of that, we'd always be able to make auto-hit weapons (rather than kludge of +500 to hit).

[1] I'd actually lean toward only taking the "Combat To Hit..." abilities from the firing weapon and all "Combat To Hit..." abilities from the targeted ship. This would mean the firing ships Combat Sensors wouldn't help its seekers to hit, but if you put +40 to hit on the launcher, that would apply. Or, that could be an option in Settings.