Phased Polaron too easy to research?

[AJC]

I have seen the AI use phased shields in v1.19-but not very often. The AI is using phased shields more often in the latest Beta patch! I had a pretty nasty suprise from the AI Last nite- when it opened 2 warp pts into my home systems and then invaded one of the systems with 10 dreadnoughts, 8 battle cruisers and 2 carriers, all had phased shields!

I think that the PB damage needs to be reduced a bit and the cost of researching them needs to be increased dramatically.

I also think the Shard cannon needs to have a 1 turn fire rate.

Some of the smaller weapons for fighters/troops need to be balanced. Several of the small weapons do the same type and amount of damage - but take up less space on the units.

[Emperor Zodd]

I hope we see some changes in the next patch that will balance these weapons better.

[UmberGryphon]

So I mentioned that PPB 5s had a damage-per-turn-per-kiloton of 1.6 in a normal mount. I went home for lunch, and I looked up some other weapons. Enveloping Acid Globules 5 have a value of 100/2/40=1.25, and Wave Motion Guns 3 have a value of 140/3/70=0.6666.... Telekinetic Projector 5s have a value of 70/1/40=1.75, but even in late game the computer has enough obsolete non-phased-shielded ships so that I don't wish I was psychic in endgame just for TkPs.

So PPBs can be gotten early enough that they can be your first direct-fire weapon, but have enough punch that using them all the way through to endgame is completely reasonable.

[raynor]

quote:

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Originally posted by rdouglass:
I have seen many AI use phased shields. Of course, not in the early games - they just don't have the time to research them. I'm not positive, but I believe the AI has a much more "balanced" research regime than I do - I tend to focus on 2-3 specific areas, max it out, and move on to the next area(s).

I do conceed that PPB's are a great early game weapon, but as many have said, the AI needs a little help at first to get going. Once they have about 50-60 turns without encountering a human, they become a much better challenge. That's why I don't use 'em (PPB's) and thats why I always play in a huge galaxy (250 systems).

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First, how do you play in a huge galaxy?

Second... how many turns do most of your games Last?

When I played without any AI bonus, it seemed like I finished up most of my large map games in under 200 turns. Once I got PPB's, max sensors, max ECM and Battlecruisers, I just started opening wormholes into enemy systems and systematically destroying their planets. I never saw the need to research anything higher.

I guess 200 turns is still early game?

[raynor]

quote:

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Originally posted by rdouglass:
...However, the PPB's skip shields and have decent range and fire rates. They also IMO are only good for early game weapons. Once the AI get's Phased Shields, they (PPB's) drop drastically in thier effectiveness.

I do agree that PPB's are very easy to research, but IMO are useless in huge galaxy, low tech games except to rush the first AI you encounter. However, that could definitely put you into position to be MEE in a hurry. Personally, I like to avoid PPB's 'cause they are such an advantage early on (its easy enough to 'rush' an AI as it is).

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What other non-race specific weapon would you have me use?

I don't see any weapon *anywhere* on the tech tree that is as effective as the PPB.

Post your ship design, and we can all run it through the simulator.

That the PPB can penetrated non-phased shields is a nice benefit before the AI gets Phased Shields. But the real tragedy is that the PPD does more damage per turn than weapons that lack that particular special ability.

[Baron Munchausen]

I don't see how requiring level TWO in physics, and then costing twice as much per level as the anti-proton beam, makes the Phased-Polaron Beam "too easy to research". It looks to me like you'd be taking quite a risk if you were to rely on getting that before you got into conflict another empire. Especially if you want to have a good selection of other technologies before then. If you make it more difficult to research, btw, you make things more difficult for the Sergetti, who use this as their main weapon. A slight adjustment to the damage might not hurt, but the change to phased shields neutralizes their main advantage so the 'special ability' is only a temporary, unlike other weapons like the shard cannon or the time distortion burst.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 28 January 2001).]

[raynor]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
I don't see how requiring level TWO in physics, and then costing twice as much per level as the anti-proton beam, makes the Phased-Polaron Beam "too easy to research". It looks to me like you'd be taking quite a risk if you were to rely on getting that before you got into conflict another empire. Especially if you want to have a good selection of other technologies before then. If you make it more difficult to research, btw, you make things more difficult for the Sergetti, who use this as their main weapon. A slight adjustment to the damage might not hurt, but the change to phased shields neutralizes their main advantage so the 'special ability' is only a temporary, unlike other weapons like the shard cannon or the time distortion burst.

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The main problem with the PPB is that it is an ULTIMATE weapon.

You say it cost twice as much per level as the A-P? Well, look at what you get for that:

A-P IV: 20,20,15,15
PPV IV: 60,55,55,50,50

So, for *just* twice as many points, you are getting THREE times the damage. Plus, it has a longer range. And... AND... at the beginning of the game and against dumb empires who don't research Phased Shields, you are actually doing SIX times the damage.

Compare the damage of the PPB to the A-P and then the small PPB to the small A-P. Small A-P starts out doing 10 pts of damage whereas the small PPB does 2,2. IMHO, the small weapons are reasonably play balanced.

Can you think of another race-generic weapon which does as much damage as the PPB V? I don't know of one. The Wave Motion Gun and Graviton Hellbore fire just once every three turns. So, the PPB still does more damage. In fact, there just isn't a weapon worth researching above the Phased Polaron Beam. So, once you research it, you can stop spending points on weapons research. That makes the PPB DIRT CHEAP!!!

So far, I haven't had any trouble staying alive long enough to research PPB V before I even start building capital ships instead of fighters.

Once again, even if the enemy has Phased Shields, the PPB still does more damage than any other weapon in the game. (excluding race-specific weapons once again)