Weapons, engines and mods, Oh my!

[oleg]

Surprisinly, nobody mentioned yet the wonderfull idea of using engine mounts insted of engine numbers to achieve "realistic" ship movement.

I forgot what mod uses this idea, but I really like it !

[Suicide Junkie]

Good point.

There is also the mQNP system, which uses mounts to decrease the size of engines for small ships.
You get almost the same physics, with engine space used <--> speed, etc...
The only differences are:
1) players MUST remember to use a mount when adding engines.
2) damage to engines is not as smooth, but with a 1 engine = 1 MP, the differences will be relatively minor. (Although for large ships, the engines will act like armor)
3) The 255 MP limit is no longer an issue. Instead, you have to worry about the 1%-100% range of possible engine sizes, and the prevention of players from using unmounted engines accidentally...
4) And stuff like supply storage, repair rates, etc...

In addition, there is also the Hybrid-QNP option, which has yet to be developed fully.
1)a) Use the mQNP to make engine classes (Light, Medium, Heavy)
b) Use Engines Per Move to separate ships in each Category, and give them whatever values result in the correct momentum.

2)a) Use mQNP for light to medium ships, and then start cranking up the EPM for larger ships, which can use the unmounted engines.

[ June 17, 2003, 17:49: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[PvK]

Hey, I mentioned scale-mounted engines as an option.

SJ, I don't quite follow all of the details you mention. Seems to me though that one basic way to do it would simply be a scale mount (like Proportions uses for several types of components) which have size/cost/structure proportional to ship mass, and the unmounted Version is so large that it either can't be used, or is really impractical except for large ships.

That's an elegant idea that has several benefits, but it seems like there are a few issues to get around, too.

* One is the size range that can be supported using scale mounts - it's pretty big, but might keep a mod from having really distant extremes.

* Another is that IIRC, mounts can't change supply storage, so if your engines carry supplies, the smallest one will carry the same amount as the largest one using scale mounts.

* Another is the hard-coded repair system, based on number of components repaired per turn. If an escort and a battleship have the same number of engines, then they'll take the same time to repair or retrofit.

PvK

[ June 17, 2003, 16:41: Message edited by: PvK ]

[Geckomlis]

FYI:
The (unpublished) mod I am working on is based around 100 kT/2 MP engines. It uses a mixed system to scale the engines:
The baseline is a 1000 kT ship.
Mounts for ships ranging from 10 – 900 kT.
Engines numbers/Engines Per Move for ships ranging from 2000 - 9000 kT.
I removed the supply storage ability from the engines so that a ship’s supply capacity was smoothly scalable and more under player design control. To compensate, I added more supply storage component options (normal, conformal, and drop supply storage) and in a variety of sizes. I also tweaked the kT/supply storage ratio for supply components. The % of kT and other attributes to move any ship speed = X is constant through all the ship sizes. I also did the same for the vehicle control components.

I am happy with this approach as it meets most desiderata.

Very minor problems with this approach:
Some casual (to me) rounding errors.
The hard-coded repair system does not scale.
You need to scale-up engine damaging weapons w/mounts for them to work against all but the smallest ships.
The ship design process is more challenging and intolerant: you need to remember to use mounts for ships <1000 kT and to add supply storage to all designs. I have done everything I can to minimize this issue, including extensive documentation.

The idea is relatively mature at this point in the mod process, so I would be open to sharing specifics and accepting criticism if anyone is interested.

Gecko

[Fyron]

Originally posted by oleg:
Surprisinly, nobody mentioned yet the wonderfull idea of using engine mounts insted of engine numbers to achieve "realistic" ship movement.

I forgot what mod uses this idea, but I really like it !

PvK mentioned it, actually. It was Pax that came up with M-QNP, and it would have been in Exodus (or it is IIRC...), but he seems to have disappeared for the most part.

[Chronon]

I have never attempted a mod, and so I have no clue if this is even possible, but I thought I would toss out my idea anyway. I'm sure you'll let me know if it's impossible.

Could you keep the number of engines the same for all ship sizes but add another component that is necessary for them to work?

Perhaps this component could be called an "ion generator," and you would need more of them to power the larger ships (one for an escort, two for frigate, three for a destroyer) etc. Each one would cost a certain amount of resorces (perhaps high on rads, medium on mins, and low on organics) and take a certain amount of supply. They could be part of the propulsion tree, and they could become more efficient at higher levels (Ion Generator I costs more resources and uses more supply than Ion Generator II). That would give players an incentive to move up the propulsion tree - otherwise you would be powering your larger ships with fuel-hogging low-tech "ion generators."

[Ed Kolis]

How would those "ion generators" be any different from the current engines, then?