Realism (of a sort) - Page 2

JSnider · #11 January 30th, 2001, 02:29 AM

Just a thought, right now the ability to convert one material to another (minus an effeciency hit) is unlimited. In effect you can process 1-2 million organics into minerals (if have them) into minerals in one turn with one plant ... would think that is a huge plant. If limit what can process from x to y at a plant then have to build more to get a decent conVersion operation going. Another point is that in one of the special areas get that solar convertor capability, i really think that should be a generally developable capability, with maybe the special race char given just better effeciency.

jsnider

Tomgs · #12 January 30th, 2001, 02:44 AM

I have converted 3M each of Organic and Radioactive into Minerals on the same turn the question that would be on my mind is how did those 4.2M (6M x 70%) KT get to all of those worlds all around the galaxy so that they could complete their building in a 10th of a year? Instantanious transmission? Putting limits on the resource converter would make sense but the ability to convert resources is already pretty advanced so other abilities could be assumed also.

Puke · #13 January 30th, 2001, 02:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tomgs:
Instantanious transmission? Putting limits on the resource converter would make sense but the ability to convert resources is already pretty advanced so other abilities could be assumed also.

resource converter you can explain that way. a better question is: how do the resoruces from a storage facility on planet A get to the construction queue on planet Z in .1 years? Kan-Bon manufacturing? does J.I.T. finaly work in the far future of SE4?

Tomgs · #14 January 30th, 2001, 05:30 AM

Yes but its the same question if my one resource converter is on one side of the galaxy with storage containers all over the galaxy how does every single resource get to that converter get converted then get to a planet on the other side of the galaxy in 1/10th of a year. Its FM (freaking magic).

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 30 January 2001).]

Puke · #15 January 30th, 2001, 05:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tomgs:
Its FM (freaking magic).

yep. any way you look at it, its pretty hosed. I dont know if i would prefer managing half-quadrant-long supply lines, or FM better. probably have complaints either way i guess.

Jubala · #16 January 30th, 2001, 04:10 PM

If you haven't played Stars!, go get the shareware/demo at http://crisium.com/stars/stars/index.htm and experience shipping three kinds of minerals around in all it's glory. It's not uncommon to have hundreds of freighters zipping around the place with minerals. A micromanagement nightmare if you have a couple of hundred planets. Still a very good game though, but taking your turn in a advanced pbem game can take quite some time. Especially if you want to maximize your production which means you have to ship around minerals so they are where they are needed all the time. It can be automated with the very advanced cargo carrying system but before you have set it all up to your satisfaction you need to keep tabs on it personally.

I'm no big fan of the Stars! approach because of the MM, but I'm not to fond of the SE4 approach either because of the FM. It's kind of like choosing between two evils...

DirectorTsaarx · #17 January 30th, 2001, 05:22 PM

Puke: I like the idea of space-borne resource storage; I think I've seen other people request that (and I've posted it myself, as a way to make bases more valuable; imagine being able to build resource storage starbases around your homeworlds...).

Jubala: careful about using MM to refer to micromanagement; don't forget SE4 was created by Malfador Machinations, aka MM... (hmmm - a subliminal message, maybe?)

Maybe one way to make the resource storage more "realistic" is to give each colony an innate storage capacity (I think SE3 gave storage capacity attributes to each construction facility, but I think I prefer colony-wide storage, since not all colonies have factories/farms/extractors). You could also add storage capacity to the shipyard facilities, to represent "stock" items. Then, rather than having to imagine resources being produced, then sent to storage facilities, and then sent to construction queues (or directly from the factories to the construction queues), we have a system that keeps a certain storage amount on each colony, and the "invisible" supply lines are merely replenishing that stock as required. Probably this could be managed by allowing storage capacity on each colony equal to three to five turns worth of construction (6,000 to 10,000 of each resource based on the standard colony construction rate of 2000 each resource per turn). Shipyards would have to provide enough extra storage capacity to make up the difference (i.e., a Space Yard II builds at 2500 each per turn, so it should store 500*3 [or 500*5] or 1500 to 2500 of each resource).

The space yard storage could be created just by modifying the existing data files. Adding planetary storage would be trickier...

Hmmmm... I think we're straying from the original post's topic, but at least we're following the title of the thread ("Realism (of a sort)")

Baron Munchausen · #18 January 30th, 2001, 07:48 PM

Putting limits on the capacity of a resource converter is good thought. You'd think that a physical 'facility' with a definite size would have limits, wouldn't you?

Resource storage for ships/bases, research and intelligence point generation for ships/bases, and a "habitat" ability that lets a population in a component GROW like it does on a planet. These three things would allow space-living races (since remote mining is already in the game). We keep hoping that MM will get around to these things. The bug fixing is still occupying almost all of the programming time.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 30 January 2001).]

Jubala · #19 January 30th, 2001, 09:32 PM

DirectorTsaarx:

Yeah, I know and I thought about when writing the post but I eventually I didn't care since everybody should understans what I was talking about anyway. Besides, the abbrevation MM is generally accepted as standing for Micro Management.

jimbob55 · #20 January 30th, 2001, 10:29 PM

If you have the resource converter tech, you also have the Ultra recycler thingamybob facility.

With this little building, you can build fleets of VERY expensive ships, mothball them indefinitely and then scrap them for 80% or so of their purchase resources. Seems like a good deal on orbital storage. Also leaves the mothballed ships vulnerable to attack / capture by enemy forces.