Fundamentals and Gamey

[Shadowstar]

One of the unique things about Starscape is that RP is actually rewarded in the game itself. You can use a dynamic roleplaying system to actually invent your own components, facilities, etc. which are then unique to your race, but you can sell them to others if they are willing to buy them. (it's even possible to RP with an ally and invent stuff as a joint effort - for example the Unity Starbase in Starfleet Command III)

There are a number of other RP-related things, such as politics and exploration, as well as an independent mIRC-based classic RPG game in the tradition of the old tabletop RPG's which can be played (usually on the weekends) and will have effects in the game itself. Imagine creating a character as the captain of one of your largest in-game flagships and giving him a daring mission on an alien world, and he ends up discovering a new technology that your empire can then use in the game... It's also possible for races to carryover thier accomplishments from past games into the next game. Races are either indigenous or non-indigenous (non-indigenous is usually reserved for the players who are playing the same race in a new game-region). Non-indigenous races start with technology based on thier previous levels (though none of the fields will be as high), but won't have any planets to start with. They have a massive colony ship and must find a viable world to colonize, so although they will have better tech than the indigenous races, they won't have the resources of a homeworld to use, and the indigenous races (with the resources of thier homeworlds) will likely advance much faster, and should be able to catch up to the non-indigenous races by the time they have established a colonial empire with a similar economy value.

RP also plays a part in allowing races to creatively discover new technology, aside from the old method of colonizing planets with ruins on them, game-events (which I, as the gamemaster create) can give players "quests" which they can complete to find new technology.

Of course, all of this is driven by my dynamic mod-updating system which allows me to make changes to the actual mod data without disrupting the flow of the game.

Hopefully this post wasn't incredibly off topic, but I figure we're talking about RP versus Gamey, and my mod aims to eliminate Gamey while promoting RP to the maximum extent. After all, that's what Starscape for Stars! did. SEIV just gives me so much more flexibility...

[DavidG]

Yea calling taking %50 in a trait cheating is pretty radical. I also kind if curious how everyone seems to know what everyones stats are in the KOTH??? In my current game I only took 100% in both defense and offense and while I may eventually lose the game is at turn 135 or so and is the most fun game I've ever played. And that is the whole point right?

I think if the %50 thing really bothers you you should try some mod that changes this. I know Fyrons Adamant mod (which is still a work in progress) changes things so that take %50 is not really worth it. I'm sure there are others.

[Rollo]

Calling this gamey or even cheating opposed to role-playing races makes no sense to me.
Hey, how about if I like to role-play a highly combat effective and aggressive race? Ever think about that?

Rollo

[Ragnarok]

I don't see the gameiness or cheating of this either. I think it is perfectly fine if someone wishes to go 50% in one area or boost their defensive capibilties by 20%.
I haven't done it in a KOTH game but from what I hear it will greatly inprove my chances of winning if I choose these settings. So I may have to do that for my next game. But for any of my other PBW games I wouldn't do it unless I'm RPing a highly agressive and defensive race. Which most of the time I'm not, I try to be peaceful and allie with alot be different races.
As long as the game permits it then it is not cheating. If they were hacking the files and making it to where they could get 130 in aggressive abilities then yes that is cheating. But as long as they do these things in the game paramerters then there is nothing wrong with it.
But I can still see where you are coming from.

[couslee]

still a newbie, but I can understand your frustration. I wouldn't call it gamey or cheating, but a limited competition. In explaination..
I like race designs that have an unmatched construction ability. I have worked on one for SP that is quite impressive, and I have done it without using the temporal race ability. If I add that, it will be even more awsome. However, I have to take defiencies in other areas. That is part of the balance of it.

I know you can find out what bonus abilities a ship has, and what race abilities a race has by looking in the right spot. If a frontal assualt has proved difficult at best, perhaps you should concentrate on their weaknesses. If they chose to have reduced happiness to make that 130% A&D, then make a bunch of kamikaze radiation bombers, heavy on the armor. Every strength of that magnitude, has an equal weakness somewhere. you just have to learn to exploit those. If a race has undefeatable ships, then attack other parts of the empire. Kinda hard to support those ships with no frigging minerals.
I have other ideas on how to deal with ubercombat but I am not going to tip my hand just yet.

Edit in: I got blitzed with IM Messages and lost my train of thought here.
What I mean by a "limited game" is things like a super-construction race is probably useless. So the challange is limited to developing a race that can deal with kill or be killed strategies and settings.

[ February 01, 2003, 16:09: Message edited by: couslee ]

[Taera]

Hey, how about if I like to role-play a highly combat effective and aggressive race? Ever think about that?

Yes i do. Its fine for me, as long as it doesnt become standard for PBW in all but "this is an RP game" games, which dont seem to be that common excluding big invintation games and such.

Couslee: i disagree. race with the settings:

50%, 120%, 100%, 52%, 125%, 110%, 125%, 110%, 125%, 125%, 50%, 115%, 80%, 102%, 120%, 50%, 105%

would be quite difficult to be caught by their weaknesses -- namely the low ground combat, they can simply load their more important planets with WP's that will always hit you. There is realy little one can do with such a race, without taking similar stats.

(designed with 3k and 120% intilligence)

[Phoenix-D]

"What I mean by a "limited game" is things like a super-construction race is probably useless."

It's not, really. You just have to A. be prepared the accept massive losses and B. make sure you have a LOT of ships, preferably more advanced than your opponent's. Playing defensive with this strategy doesn't work..they get bigger than you and use the size of their empire to out-produce you despite your better per-yard construction.

Phoenix-D