Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available

[PvK]

Re: Master Computer use by the AI in 1.84

I should probably make a patch to try to address this, but it won't be easy, as I don't see a solution that doesn't have undesirable side-effects. That is, either all AI will be at a significant disadvantage (the current situation), or all Psychic empires will (if I make MC's cheap and lower their combat penalties). Best for newly-started games would probably be to split the computer tech area so that MC's are an option that AI's can avoid researching.

Unless anyone sees a better answer.

PvK

[JLS]

Originally posted by PvK:
Re: Master Computer use by the AI in 1.84

I should probably make a patch to try to address this, but it won't be easy, as I don't see a solution that doesn't have undesirable side-effects. That is, either all AI will be at a significant disadvantage (the current situation), or all Psychic empires will (if I make MC's cheap and lower their combat penalties). Best for newly-started games would probably be to split the computer tech area so that MC's are an option that AI's can avoid researching.

Unless anyone sees a better answer.

PvK

Agreed:
If you revise the MC's as you say, and add a Tech level for just MC's tree to the bottom of Tech area that wouldn’t break or that adversely effect currant games, would it? (except Human Players that did not get computers before the update)
The AI probably would just retro fit to there intended designs soon enough if within retro fit rules?

[ March 06, 2003, 04:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by PvK:
Unless someone knows of a way to increase resistance to subverters (more/stronger vehicle control components?).

The only way I see is either to lower the range percentages of the subverters or to strengthen the defense values (lower the to-hit-chances). It is not comparable with damaging weapons.

A bit off topic (I mean out of this specific question):
Medium Transporters with SY components. I have not yet found an AI race using this cheap solution, at least they don't use it in the later states of a game 60-100 years.
My question to PvK, was it even intended? If so, I think some AI ship designs could be improved by this, if not, I guess the cargo capabilities of SY components will be removed soon (3.00 Foundations).

[Fyron]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PvK:
Unless someone knows of a way to increase resistance to subverters (more/stronger vehicle control components?).

The only way I see is either to lower the range percentages of the subverters or to strengthen the defense values (lower the to-hit-chances). It is not comparable with damaging weapons.

A bit off topic (I mean out of this specific question):
Medium Transporters with SY components. I have not yet found an AI race using this cheap solution, at least they don't use it in the later states of a game 60-100 years.
My question to PvK, was it even intended? If so, I think some AI ship designs could be improved by this, if not, I guess the cargo capabilities of SY components will be removed soon (3.00 Foundations).

---

It is safe to say that it was intended. Otherwise, PvK would never have added the Cargo ability to SY components.

SYs on Medium Transports allows you to do remote mining earlier, which is actually useful in Proportions (unlike the standard game).

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It is safe to say that it was intended. Otherwise, PvK would never have added the Cargo ability to SY components.

You are right, that is an obvious sign
In this case, I am going to observe some of the earlier AI ship designs to probably increase AI profitabilities.

[PvK]

The cargo ability allowing SYS on transport hulls is intentional. There are some other components that also benefit from that (supply storage, for example). This creates an interesting design choice, in addition to introducing SYS before cruiser-sized warships. That is, players have a choice between less capable (slower, bad combat ability) support ships at reduced cost, or expensive Versions with the same speed and ability levels as warships (minus the tonnage for the support components).

Unfortunately, the AI seems to have no ability to use SYS to any advantage, even if they can be made to build them.

...

As for JLS's questions about effects of the proposed computers change on existing games... it could be made so the AI would phase out the MC's. Human players wanting them would then need to research the new tech area to get them. It's not a very elegant solution, but it seems better to me than the alternatives I can think of at the moment.

PTF's suggestion about reducing subverter accuracy is another way to possibly help.

Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by PvK:
Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech.

Noooo !

EDIT: I do not even think subverters need to get more disadvantages. They are very late in proportions tech tree, they just can be fired once per combat and there is still the disadvantage of a cascade effect. MCs have been changed more to a not wanted component for the important human ship designs (accuracy malus, bad defense, expensive), other than for a small base with not enough space in it I have not used MCs so far because of too many malusses. And I do not even think about using them to compete against subverters, there are better defense capabilities (long range weapons, faster ships etc.).

[ March 06, 2003, 10:39: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]